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31 comments

Mary Kassian

Girls Gone Wise 11: If You Play with Fire

Posted on 06.24.10 by Mary Kassian | Twitter: @MaryKassian
Topics: Marriage, Sexuality

“If you play with fire, you’re going to get burned” is how the old saying goes. But so many women throw caution to the wind and ignore boundaries, thinking it would never happen to them. The young married woman of Proverbs probably didn’t think it would happen to her either. Her lack of personal hedges landed her in trouble—entangled in a messy affair. In this Girls Gone Wise video book blog, you’ll be challenged to take precautions and establish some wise hedges, so you can avoid crashing through boundaries and making a wreck of your life.


1.    Read the eleventh point of contrast between a Wild and a Wise Thing (Pages 153-169)
2.    Download and complete the Chapter Questions for Personal Reflection.
3.    Download and complete the Personal Hedges Worksheet.
4.    Post your comments on the Blog

•    How does failing to heed boundaries expose a woman to potentially dangerous or compromising situations?
•    Do you think we can come up with a hard and fast list of boundaries that are appropriate for all circumstances? Who or why not?
•    Were there any hedges on the Personal Hedges Worksheet that you liked or thought were particularly important? Were there any you disliked or thought were overly restrictive?
•    Has anyone ever pressured you to cross a boundary that you felt uncomfortable crossing? How did you respond?
•    What are some challenges you face when it comes to maintaining personal hedges?

Comments

  1. We must have boundaries in order to be respected and valued by others as well as by ourselves.

    A boundary is a fence to ward off potential problems and to protect. It sets a parameter to be a guide, as in computer programming parameters keep the program in the right areas of operation. When we have those right areas of operation in our personal and ministerial lives we will be more effective for His service. And these principles are for all Christians; but especially for those in leadership roles.

    We shouldn't be surprised that Satan's very first attack on Adam and Eve came in the form of an all-out assault on the only boundary God had set. "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden?'" (Genesis 3:1)

    God helps us to establish healthy boundaries through His strength and guidance. Proper mental, emotional, and spiritual boundaries enable us to focus on God’s love for us, as well as the ways in which He can use us to better serve the Body of Christ.

    “Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil,” (Romans 14:16 KJV). Your midnight assistance at a friend’s house may be good-natured, but a better option might be to have them call the proper authorities if they have a safety or health issue and check in with them by phone. Sure, it may seem a little secluded to function this way, but God’s Biblical laws and statutes were designed to keep the marriage solid and intact and the enemy completely out. If you are ignoring these biblical laws and statutes, then you are not being led by God; and chances are good the enemy has stepped in.

    We MUST be aware of how others view our relationship with God and to do this we must be constantly aware of the image we are projecting to others. We can not have the attitude of "I dont care what other people think of me." This is not from God; but from our enemy.....Satan! It's often hard to accept this truth because we dont WANT to accept it.

    We should always be stepping stones........not stumbling blocks. If our relationships with the opposite sex even "looks" inappropriate to others, it doesnt matter who gives us the approval (whether it be our spouse, our friends, our co-workers, etc) it is not based on God's laws and statutes!!!

    By setting boundaries with the opposite sex, we assure ourselves of not causing others to stumble and to keep ourselves holy before God.

    Dear God - I pray today that you will open the eyes of those who may be completely out of your will by having a relationship with the opposite sex that may be hindering the walk of others or causing others to doubt and stumble. We want to be examples for you. We care about how others interpret our walk with you God. Please pierce my heart and give me the courage to change what needs to be changed and the strength to give YOU GOD, all the glory. Put me where YOU would have me serve. Put me back where I belong. Amen.
    posted by changemyheart
    on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 at 10:45 am
  2. Mary, this is the best chapter yet in your "Girls Gone Wise in a world gone wild." As the old saying goes, it really "hits the nail on the head." Sadly enough, I think some of us need to be hit on the head to realize the importance of boundaries!

    To changemyheart above: I couldnt agree with you more when you say "We must have boundaries in order to be respected and valued by others as well as by ourselves." If we dont have VISIBLE boundaries for our relationships, then others will not respect us as role models or as Christian examples. We will be giving mixed signals to those around us; misleading them along the way. We can all talk the talk, but can we walk the walk?

    Personally, the boundary I see being abused the most in our society today is the one that speaks of the boundaries we must set when we are married. So many women today have taken their own view of what is "right" or "acceptable" and are absolutely ingoring the biblical principles that have been set forth for us to follow. Their friendships with the oppposite sex are treated as though the word "marriage" means nothing. There are no boundaries set; no hedges at all. If WE feel like it is ok to do it, we do it. If our husbands think it's ok for us to do it, we do it. If our friends think its ok for us to do it, we do it. What about what GOD says is ok?

    Several statements in this chapter really made me stop and think. I'd like to share some of those statements:

    "he was such a good listener, and emphathized with the stuggles in her marriage."

    "women went off track because they crossed proper boundaries."

    "A Girl-Gone-Wild crosses boundaries and plunges ahead with reckless confidence. She scoffs at the danger, believing that she's in control of the situation." "It wont happen to me" "It cant hurt."

    "The Wild Thing of Proverbs 7 was a married woman. She shouldnt have socially paired up with the young man. It was inappropriate for her to hang out with a man who wasnt her husband. If either individual in a male-female combination is married, then it is unwise for them to interact on a "paired-up" basis."

    "She knew what she needed to do, but didnt have the desire or the strength to do it."

    WOW! How much clearer can it be????

    If only TWO of the several boundaries mentioned in this chapter were followed, think of the difference we could make as Christian examples!!!
    (1) I will interact with men in a group rather than one-on-one situations. (2) I will not meet up, dine, or travel alone with a man if one of us is married.

    One thing I think most women are guilty of (myself included) is we tend to use our feelings and emotions as the guide to how a relationship is going. In other words, if we dont feel emotionally or spiritually attached, we just assume the other person feels none either. This is planted in our minds by our enemy. This is why God plainly gives us guidelines to live by in his Holy Word that we so often ignore. Just by being available for another man's spitual or emotional needs could be causing him to sin; without us even realizing it. Some of us may be aware of the dangers, but just as Mary stated "she knew what she needed to do, but didnt have the desire or the strength to do it."

    I see Satan attacking our family unit more today than ever.
    posted by mary
    on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 at 2:02 pm
  3. I am a married woman and one of my best friends is a single man. My family is friends with his family, we attend church together, we live in the same community, we have the same interests and both of us are Christians. It is not uncommon for me to travel with him to conferences, meetings, church activities, etc. My husband trusts me 100% and knows I would never do anything to harm our marriage. My thinking is as long as my husband is ok with it and I know we are doing nothing wrong, then it really doesnt matter what other people "think" of us. Sure, I know some people talk about it not "looking right" for me to be riding around with a man that is not my husband, but shouldnt that be between me and God and me and my husband? Am I doing anything un-Christian by being seen in public with a single man? Often times, it is church activities we are involved in. Other times, it's not. I enjoy his company and he enjoys mine. What is wrong with that? We are both very spirtual people and have tuned what others think of us out. Is this wrong?
    posted by anonymous
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 11:05 am
  4. Is it wrong for a guy & girl to live together in a platonic relationship even though they are both Christians? Does it matter how it appears to others? Does God's Word say, "Avoid even the appearance of evil"? Even though we are free in Christ we are also called to avoid causing others to stumble. We may not be sinning, but they do not know that. And as loudly as we might be telling them we are not sinning, non-Christians in particular do not believe it. The non-
    Christians have brought these issues up to me & this is one reason we Christians are often labeled as hypocrites in their minds.
    posted by LeeAnn Cheeley
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 11:44 am
  5. I agree with boundaries and all that you posted. However, I do have an issue with the part about being concerned with what others think. Hmmm...not sure about that one. If I concerned myself with what others thought of me, I wouldn't be where I am today - a Christian! So of my "others" that I hung around with (and still do) are not Christians, but are "good" people. And it is my hope, that my actions and beliefs will lead them to ask and then hopefully lead them to Christ. But if I worried about what they thought, I would not post my beliefs on my artsy blog, I would not post my beliefs in my publications, and I would not pat my friends on the back now and then when they get a great art review and tell them that God has blessed them! They don't want to always hear that, but that is my true belief, God has blessed them.

    My boundaries are my values with God and as I understand them according to the bible. I have to be careful (and watchful) as they are tested all the time. But, how my boundaries are viewed by others, have never been a concern of mine - only how God views them is my concern. And in my best abilitiy, do I try to decide if my boundaries need adjusting according to the situation.

    My husband never worries about my boundaries with men. He knows I have strong boundaries and make them clear. I remember one time at a social event, a gentelman sat next to me and we spent quite a bit of time talking to each other. He was very nice and polite. The next day, he went to see my husband for a hair cut (my husband is a barber) and told my husband that he enjoyed talking to me the night before. He went on to say that I was so easy to talk to and it had been so long since he had talked to an intelligent and nice woman (he was going through a divorce). He went on to say that he hoped he didn't think he was coming on to his wife and wanted apologize for talking so much to me the night before. My husband chuckeled and said it was no issue. He said that I was easy to talk to and if he had come on to me that I would had made it very clear that he had stepped over the line. My husband said the gentelman laughed at that and told my husband that he felt comfortable with me BECAUSE he felt a strong boundary and knew that our conversation was just that: conversation, which put him at ease to just be himself. He then told my husband that I made it clear, without ever saying it, who was number one in that room.

    So, there is a way to set boundaries and a way to keep them. And also a way to make your husband feel secure enough that he will always be number one as well. But bottom line is: God's approval is what I am after.

    Thanks so much for all your posts,
    E
    posted by Elizabeth
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 12:04 pm
  6. Dear Elizabeth, Since I am married and my friend is single, are you saying we shouldnt worry about what people think of us being together alot without my husband as long as I know that I am not sinning?

    Another question that has seared my conscience lately; I know what he and I are doing is totally sinless; but lets say another married woman uses me (or us) as a Godly example and she in turn has a male friend but falls into temptation with him; will God hold me responsible for setting a bad (evil) example?
    posted by anonymous
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 1:12 pm
  7. Anonymous, I would like to gently ask why you feel the need to be anonymous if you are sure of the rightness of this relationship?

    Also, is it possible that your first post you felt the need to be defensive? That defensiveness alone might give you good cause to reconsider the "rightness" of the relationship.

    I do believe we are warned to not give others an occasion to stumble. This is particularly in an area where we feel that God has given us certain "freedom". (I Corinthians 8: 9 KJV "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.")

    Another thing to consider is your friend. Would this man be a good husband for some young lady out there? Perhaps his relationship with you is keeping him from seeking a friendship with women that could lead to marriage in the future.

    Lastly, it might be wise to put the shoe your husband wears on your own foot. Ask yourself if your husband had the same type of relationship with a "girl" friend would that be threatening to you? Do you like the feeling you get thinking of your husband in a relationship like that with another woman? Is it possible that your husband allows it because he fears the result of asking you to stop?

    Just some things to think about. I have prayed for you today.
    momsheart48@blogspot.com
    posted by Susan McCurdy
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 3:02 pm
  8. Hello Anonymous,

    When I say that I haven't let what others think of me be a concern for me, what I mean by that is that I truly (to the best of my ability) try to follow what the bible teaches. I may fail a lot of the time, but then, I just start again. And if those around me don't understand or even agree (as in the case of my non-christian friends who may not understand some of my actions, but respect them all the same), I feel okay in proceeding, knowing that I am following God's teachings (as I understand it).

    Having said that....I also stated in my first comment that I try to adjust my boundaries according to the situation, if needed. That means sometimes I may have misread a situation myself, or I later discover that my actions or statements may have mislead someone unintentionally or that someone else may have completely misread my intentions, and in those cases, I will then feel the need to adjust my boundaries not because of what THEY think, but because of how I think GOD would want me to. Make sense?

    So in other words, Anonymous, for me personally, I would not keep a lot of private company with a single man friend (even if my husband said he didn't mind) not so much of how it looks, or how others think, but because of what I feel the bible has taught me...and the bible has taught me that as an older woman (well, middle-aged!) I am to set an example to younger women and the bible teaches I am to honor my husband. Having a male friend does not dishonor him, of course. But reserving most of my private time with only one special male (my husband) elevates him, which honors him. I would think God would like that. I don't have to make a big deal about it, or announce it, or anything. I just visit my male friend with my husband, or have him over for dinner, or with a group. No big deal. But what is even a bigger deal? And a better deal? The unspoken honor (and example) that I show my husband and others by simply honoring what I (think) the bible is trying to teach me, because I care about what God is wanting from me.

    But this is just how I see things. There are many more educated people who have better answers. I think it is great you have a male friend. I would just suggest you invite your friend and your husband to get to know each other better. For all we know, God may be trying to use you as a bridge for those two men to meet and grow closer for a reason.

    Just something to think about. Either way, just know Jesus has the answers and the bible is the best teacher. You can find the real answers there.

    Hope this helps.

    Many good wishes to you
    Elizabeth
    posted by Elizabeth
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 3:52 pm
  9. Susan; thank you for your response. I didnt mean to sound so defensive in my first post; but as you can tell, I have had to defend my "position" on this issue many times. The answer to your question is NO! I would not like it if my husband had a close female companion. It would make me feel very insecure; regardless if it was with a Godly woman. Thanks for prompting me to analyze the situation in a different way.

    (I Corinthians 8: 9 KJV "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.") I dont want to be a stumbling block for anyone. I am very strong in my beliefs and I am strong enough to avoid temptation and tune out what others think of me. But, I dont want a weaker vessel to sin by following my example.

    I never felt like I was keeping him from seeking a friendship with other women. After your explanatino above, maybe I am "ruining his reputation" by allowing our relationship to continue. Maybe other women look at him negatively because the boundary he has not set for himself.

    Lots to think about. Thanks.
    posted by anonymous
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 4:01 pm
  10. Elizabeth; my husband and my friend are already very close friends. We all do things together quite often. The issue is when my husband is working and I chose to go places with my friend in public. The "image" we are projecting is the situation; not the relationship between him and my husband.

    Thank you for reminding me that I am to set an example for younger women.
    posted by anonymous
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 4:11 pm
  11. I am so happy that this message was posted. I have always had male friends (married and unmarried). I would consider myself a tomboy so it never seemed wrong. When I got married my husband would always get angry about my male friends. I just didn't understand I had never had an inappropriate relationship before him or in the many years of our marriage. Last year my husband left me for another woman. I was devestated at which time I began to consult my close friend (male & married). He had always been there for me. This relationship had no boundaries as I had never thought any were needed. We were simply friend but I had became emotionally attached to him and we briefly became intimate. I was so ashamed and lost. I ended the intamacy however, we continued to talk (not as often and never about the event that occurred). I have repented for my sin and since have been saved by the grace of God. My question is how can I avoid the same cycle of sin? I truly care for him but I know that my feeling may lead me into temptation. I love the Lord and I want to be faithful to him not my flesh.
    posted by In need of Boundaries
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 5:30 pm
  12. Dear In Need of Boundaries,

    I’m thankful you have come to know Jesus as your Lord and Savior. It is the Holy Spirit in you that not only brings conviction of sin, but also the power and desire to turn away from that sin.

    Repenting of the immoral relationship you had with this man is the right first step in breaking this cycle of sin. However, you must also cut off all contact with him immediately. You cannot repent of sin yet continue to flirt with it.

    Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body (1 Cor. 6:18).

    I do not encourage you to meet or interact with this man personally to break off the relationship. Writing a letter will help to prevent further emotional interaction. Simply confess your sin of violating the covenant of marriage between him and his wife and state that your desire to honor God and the covenant of marriage prevents you from having any further interaction with him. This should be a short and factual letter.

    Then find a godly female friend who will hold you accountable in this area – a friend who is not afraid to ask the hard questions on a regular basis.

    You must then become proactive in establishing appropriate boundaries as you interact with men. Nancy’s booklet Personal Hedges will help you in that process http://www.reviveourhearts.com/topics/downloads/index.php?id=9507.

    I also encourage you to listen to Nancy’s interview with Judy Starr entitled Enticement of the Forbidden http://www.reviveourhearts.com/radio/roh/today.php?pid=9164.

    Do it today, dear friend! The stakes are far too high for you to delay!
    posted by Carrie Gaul
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 7:18 pm
  13. "Anonymous", Thanks for your kind response. I will keep praying for you as you work through this issue. I think Elizabeth's response is great... do it because it's what God's Word says.

    "In Need of Boundaries", getting burned hurts. I love the song by Point of Grace "Heal the Wounds".
    It has blessed me when thinking of the scars in my own life. God is faithful to forgive us. (I John 1: 9). You have my prayers too. This ministry and it's resources are so valuable at helping us get on track and stay on track as women serious about following God.
    momsheart48.blogspot.com
    posted by Susan McCurdy
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 7:34 pm
  14. "Anonymous", another thing you may not have considered in this relationship is your friend may be spirtually or emotionally attracted to you and not even realize the sin involved! I know I tend to take things for granted that is in my daily life without putting a whole lot of thought into it. He may be turning to you for more support than you or he realizes.

    It's just not worth the risk involved; IF you are truly trying to live your life for God, and believe what the bible teaches us. I like what "changemyheart" quoted above: "“Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil,” (Romans 14:16 KJV). Your midnight assistance at a friend’s house may be good-natured, but a better option might be to have them call the proper authorities if they have a safety or health issue and check in with them by phone. Sure, it may seem a little secluded to function this way, but God’s Biblical laws and statutes were designed to keep the marriage solid and intact and the enemy completely out. If you are ignoring these biblical laws and statutes, then you are not being led by God; and chances are good the enemy has stepped in.

    I believe the enemy entices us to take baby steps over boundaries a little at a time until one day we wake up and wonder how in the world we got to where we are!

    Another thing I would like to point out; dont be so quick to dismiss how others view your walk. If you are a women after God's own heart, you SHOULD care about the image you are projecting.

    Will be praying about this situation.
    posted by laken
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 8:20 pm
  15. SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE: I am a middle-aged married woman that has fallen into this trap. I know we all think "it wont happen to me" but if it happened to ME, then it can happen to anyone; dont risk it. It's not worth the hurt.

    Ladies, if you are married and your husband does not mind you spending quality time with another married man or another single man; then something-is-wrong. Dont allow satan the satisfaction of you viewing this as trust from your husband. I assure you, the more you venture out, the more friends you will lose, the more satan will tug and the more you will give. Once he convinces you to step over a very small boundary; then he has you in his hands. He-will-convince-you-that-everything-is-just-fine. But, he is ready to kill, steal and destroy.

    A true man of God will respect you for this boundary. Put up a hedge today that you will not be alone with another man in any circumstance; whether it is in the church, on the mission field, going to a soccer game, etc. If your husband is not with you, then you have no business with another man.

    I plead with you to set those boundaries and stick with them. satan will be hiding in the hedges, but fight him with all your might!
    posted by carrie
    on Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 9:00 pm
  16. After reading through all these posts, it appears to me that many are putting the emphasis on the husband's approval and not on God's approval. Another thing I have noticed in these posts is everyone seems to be concentrating on their behavior with another man without the presence of their husband.

    We should be focusing on what GOD would be pleased with and our one on one behavior with other men should be very, very limited even when with our husbands in public.

    I burdens my heart to think how many young people could be affected by watching and learning from our example. Are we teaching them there's not really a whole lot of difference in male/female relationships once we are married? Are we teaching them our husbands are our authority, not God? Are we teaching them to tune out all acts of accountability by convincing them what others think of us doesnt matter?

    We need to put God back in our dailyi lives and live for HIM.
    posted by sm
    on Friday, June 25, 2010 at 7:23 am
  17. Galatians 5:10 I am trusting the Lord to keep you from believing false teachings. God will judge that person, whoever he is, who has been confusing you.

    Galations 6:7 Don’t be misled—you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant.

    Why do some accept the word, and some do not?
    Man has turned from the glory of God to seek his own glory. Christians have responsibilities to assist in restoring one another when one falls into sin; so how can one claim hpw others view your obedience to scripture is not important? Aren't you commanded to reflect the image of God? Are we reflecting or defeating the image?

    I see the Word of God as “the final authority for life and living.” Fall in love with the gospels of Jesus and the letters of Paul. Hear the heartbeat of God in the pages and trust the promises it makes. But for the sake of the world, go further. Do what it says–not out of duty or obligation but out of love in response to grace.

    We work so hard to understand one verse or concept and spin in intellectual circles, yet plain truths that are obvious, we don’t follow them. Friends, there is no doubt that God places boundaries in our lives. How well are you living within them?
    posted by lillian
    on Friday, June 25, 2010 at 9:13 am
  18. Dear Anonymous, I read your letter and I have to say that a friendship with a single man is NOT wise! I think that the comments above from the readers are most pertinent.

    Perhaps your husband at some stage could become jealous. Perhaps the single man would becomeneedy at some stage and need more.

    I believe you that you are trustworthy.

    But is the single man in question trustworthy?

    Have you ever thought about the passage in the Bible that says "whatever God has brought together let NO MAN put asunder".

    I also went out with a single man (as a single woman) and thought nothing of it. We were friends for ages. And then he fell in love. With me.

    And I felt awful. Because I didn't love him.

    I'm now in a relationship and yes, I do have a single man friend. Nothing between us at all. But when I go out with him, my "real" boyfriend is with us. As are other single girlfriends.

    Think about it. He may be looking to you for emotional support. He has to get that elsewhere - and so do you.

    I wish you well. I believe that your intentions are good and honourable and perhaps the single man's intentions are likewise.

    But don't tempt the devil.

    Because the devil loves to make us fall.

    In all honesty, I don't think God would approve of it. And we have to listen to God, not our husbands. To God first of all. That's what it says in the Bible.

    Hugs from here,

    Judy
    posted by judy
    on Friday, June 25, 2010 at 1:45 pm
  19. If you read the blog posted on 6-23-10 "afraid my husband will cheat" other comment about how you can cheat on your spouse three different ways; physically, emotionally, and spiritually. So even if you pride yourself on being able to have a relationship with another man without sinning physically, you are still guilty of sinning by cheating on your husband (or wife in the case of a 'girl' friend) in an emotional way. It also is not 'telling the story' or Christ and His church by going to someone other than your spouse for satisfaction.
    posted by Heather
    on Friday, June 25, 2010 at 2:49 pm
  20. Heather, unfortunately many women in these type relationships have justified their behavior by using the gospel as a reason (excuse) to entertain their own special needs. I have found that many women need this extra attention and actually thrive under adversity. As a born again Christian, there is not a single reason for a married woman to ever be alone with another man other than her husband. How many priests, ministers, leaders, evangelist, teachers, etc. do we see in our daily news that have fallen into sin? The enemy is roaming! He is after the believers, not the non believers - he already has them.

    It is time we open our eyes and start being the Godly examples that God created us to be! As the saying goes, "It only takes one bad apple to upset the whole apple cart." One bad "christian" influence can turn a non-believer away! Why would any woman risk this happening? If you know you are not setting a good example but you are of the mind that it doesnt matter what others think, then you are dead wrong! It does matter what others think because you are setting the example for our next generation to live by; as if its not hard enough already.

    Sorry if this posts seems blunt, but I'm really tired of christians getting a bad rap because some women refuse to obey Gods word! You can not justify sin.........sin is sin.............big or small......
    posted by reallytrying
    on Friday, June 25, 2010 at 4:48 pm
  21. What these women need is much prayer. If each of us pray that their eyes will be opened to the influence they are having on others, God can make it happen. Its a very serious situation because our young girls in today's society have very bad influences all around them all the time. We must come together and teach them moral principles about what our Father's Word has taught us. We must teach them to set proper boundaries and abide by them. They follow our example. We cant say/teach one thing and do another. If these young girls see older married women supporting or hanging out with single/other married men, then they may follow that example and end up falling into temptation and I dont think any of us would ever want that to happen to a young person that we had a chance to make an influence on.

    Pray, pray, pray......Hope everyone has a blessed day.
    posted by paige
    on Saturday, June 26, 2010 at 1:22 pm
  22. I have a different kind of question. My pastor has asked me to open the worship and lead the confessional prayer at our service on Sunday mornings. Is this crossing the hedge? I'm not sure I want to do this and am of course complemented at the invite. My sister thinks this is not a woman's place in church. I would love some imput and a way to figure out what God has to say on this issue.
    posted by Debbie M
    on Saturday, June 26, 2010 at 2:52 pm
  23. It's clear in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 that we are not to speak during church gatherings (where there is learning going on). I do not understand how anyone crossed this line. It's said that since people read that 'everyone' prayed during certain sections in the word that means that women joined along and 'spoke' during a service BUT did it ever say anywhere that a women LEAD in prayer or otherwise? There isn't a precedent in scripture backing the 'let the woman lead/open worship' or talk in any fasion during a service.
    posted by ConcernedAbouttheChurch
    on Sunday, June 27, 2010 at 10:06 am
  24. Dear Debbie M.,
    You’ve asked an excellent question. Nancy and Dr. Bruce Ware touched on your question in the series Affirmations of the True Woman Manifesto—Part 1. I’ve included below an excerpt from that broadcast (http://www.reviveourhearts.com/radio/roh/today.php?pid=10535).

    Nancy Leigh DeMoss: So, Dr. Ware, as we think about practical applications of this principle, it’s the adult Sunday school class, the couple Sunday school class, we have to make decisions on these kinds of things. What helps inform and direct our thinking as to whether this is a role a woman can and should have?

    Dr. Ware: Very good question, and it’s a hard one. We have so many ministry positions today that didn’t exist in the New Testament, so we don’t have Paul’s instruction. We certainly know about senior pastor; we know about elders, because he told us directly. But we don’t have worship leaders; we don’t have Sunday school teachers and so many other positions. So I think what is helpful is to ask this question of a contemporary non-New Testament position, ministry position: If it is sufficiently elder-like in what it does, in the nature of its function; if it’s sufficiently elder-like to justify, then bring elder principles to bear on that position.

    You can ask this question, and it’s not that you always get an easy answer, but you can ask this question of a worship leader or of a Sunday school teacher: Is it sufficiently elder-like in what it does, and, if the answer is “Yes,” then I think it’s wise anyway to think in terms of a qualified male who would be an elder-qualified person to function in that capacity.

    While we need to hold the line on the one hand, on things that are clear, we should have a humility about these other areas.

    You’ll find additional insights into the specific role of an elder in the previous day’s broadcast http://www.reviveourhearts.com/radio/roh/today.php?pid=10534 and in our past series Biblical Roles in the Church http://www.reviveourhearts.com/radio/roh/today.php?pid=9798 .

    Talk with your husband about this, Debbie. Ask him to pray with you as you consider God’s direction in this matter.

    May your willingness to submit to God’s ways become a mighty testimony for His glory in the days ahead!
    posted by Carrie Gaul
    on Monday, June 28, 2010 at 12:06 pm
  25. Dear Mary,

    This chapter is so rich, so full of helpful, practical suggestions, along with word pictures, examples, and sayings of old that make a lot of sense (I love the one by Cervantes, and the explanation of the deeper meaning of the ring in the pig's snout, and the definition of the word "discretion"). I love your love, Mary, for the sanctity of marriage, and the value you place on your own marriage, and the example you set for us to love our husbands and hedge in our marriages (and sexual purity) with utmost diligence. Bravo!

    * Failing to heed boundaries exposes us to danger because we can find ourselves in compromising situations we never meant to be in (or didn't expect would feel so compromising). Then we can find it hard to resist the temptation to sin. A little foresight (setting up hedges) could prevent the problem altogether. "An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure" (something like that!).

    * We can't come up with a list of hard and fast boundaries for every situation, because we still must be led by God's Holy Spirit, and exercise wisdom and common sense daily. However, with hedges in place, we are a lot safer. (There can be godly exceptions to a lot of rules. But it's the exception, not the rule, and may never even happen.)

    * I especially like the hedge about not giving a man emotional support where his wife should be giving it to him, nor allowing him to do so for you. I would add to that spiritual support, as well, where it might encroach on a spouse's role. As far as any overly restrictive hedges, I don't think so -- I would just emphasize the point above, that we can't develop hard and fast rules and must be led by God's Spirit and principles in His Word in every situation. (e.g. I would not normally talk with men in private. Recently two young men came over, comissioned by my husband who was out working, to fix our well pump. My young children were home, but not present at every point when I got to speak to these men, and even in one instance -- in all purity -- I was able to give some of the gospel to one of the men, as I spoke to him by himself -- in a well-lit, appropriate part of the opened garage.)

    * Yes, I've felt pressured to cross boundaries at times. Like your testimony, Mary (at the end of the chapter), I'm figuring out more and more how to be strong, wise, have strong convictions and hedges, and how to distance myself if men try to cross -- or get me to cross -- boundaries.

    * Challenges I face are not to send the wrong signal, unwittlingly, to a man by giving too many compliments, or even appropriate forms of physical contact. I find in this day and age, hugs may not be appropriate in every instance (even the from the shoulders up ones). Only the Lord can give us the balance. In many/most cases where it's appropriate, I will still give a hug, or a compliment -- but am learning I must temper even this, especially if I see it sending the wrong signal, or if a spouse may interpret it the wrong way.

    Pr. 10:14a

    WIth love through our Lord Jesus to you all!
    posted by Leslie S.
    on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 at 10:48 am
  26. P.S. I loved the word picture of the train you gave on the video clip (poor truck driver). That will stick in my mind!
    posted by Leslie S.
    on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 at 10:50 am
  27. Hi! I loved this chapter, and am so thankful for the downloads you offered. I liked all the hedges you suggested, and found the thoughts about keeping a curfew regarding online presence/chatting especially helpful, and something I had never given a thought of before. Thank you!

    May I add a few thoughts, coming from a single girl, mid-20's? :) (Perhaps someone has already mentioned this above...) I guess I was a little bit surprised to find no mention of ...umm, well... "fitness" relationships. I'm not sure if I'd add it under *potential* unhealthy environments, or unhealthy pairing of myself with men. I guess its rather tricky, because it isn't sinful to go to a gym to workout, and, say, going running would be spending time with a guy in a "non-personal" way in a public setting... however I know for a fact that this is an area where a lot of girls mess up--and its so easy to find lots of handy excuses to justify things.

    Could I share a personal example? I attended a Christian college for Grad school, and I had a really bubbly, fit, strawberry-blond roommate who was engaged to a guy back home (thousands of miles away). She taught me the joys of running, and we'd often go out running together. During our next to last year, there was a married man in one of our classes, and we got to know him and his wife and little children very well, and babysat for them often so they could have date nights. (They are one of the most openly in-love couples I've ever seen.) We eventually found out he runs competitively. So... he invites us girls to coming running with him... He actually talked with my roommate about it, and she tells me she'd go with him herself since he's married and she's engaged, and "his wife doesn't mind at all" but they'd feel better if there were a third person for appearance sake...

    ...well, that was the day I built a personal hedge that I'll never go running with a married man (unless his wife is there running too). I couldn't convince myself that his wife *was* okay with it. ... Someday, Lord willing, I might be that little wifey at home pregnant and caring for 2 or 3 toddlers and unable to go running, let alone be able to be "fit and pretty." If my husband and his/my friends ever think I won't mind if he goes running with two cute college chics, they're COMPLETELY mistaken!! (alas, my roommate was very mad at me for being a stick in the mud!) Events later proved our classmate's wife would have been very hurt and UNcomfortable with the idea of it all. (No one had asked her, they only assumed she wouldn't mind, because we were all friends and there seemed to be no danger of immorality there ... happily married man, happily engaged girl, + third party.)

    I don't know if that is helpful at all, but that's just a drop in the bucket, really, of fitness dangers/fiascoes (stresses placed upon happy marriages, and broken friendships) that can happen, and often along those lines--a single girl not wanting to go out running/working out alone, and a married guy who wants a work-out buddy.

    Personally, I've found its better not to go to gyms at all, as a girl. There are men "looking" too much, whether because they are "hunting", if you will, or because they are just getting weak to what is there visually. It does make it hard though, when a single girls doesn't have a fitness-buddy-roommate. :( But its best, for me anyways, before my Lord Jesus. ...Praise the Lord for all the fitness DVD's and home workouts there are these days! :)

    LOL--that's my two cents (maybe more than two cents)--but thanks so much for listening! I hope maybe that might be helpful to someone, somehow, somewhere along the way...

    Thank you again for this great series on Girls Gone Wise!! I'm really loving every bit of it!:) God bless!
    posted by Cheryl
    on Tuesday, July 6, 2010 at 12:27 am
  28. God's Words and truths are timeless. I have just taken a look at the boundaries worksheet once again. I have had it in a file for several years. I have felt "confused" about a friendship that has developed over the past 3 months with a seperated man. As I went through the list, I was stunned to see how many hedges have been pushed aside under the guise of friendship.
    posted by anon.
    on Monday, March 12, 2012 at 10:36 am
  29. "Damaged Goods"

    Hi...I'm new to this whole "blogging" thing, but I really needed to reach out to some strong women of God about my struggles along the lines of Playing With Fire.

    To sum it up, I feel like damaged goods. I have played with fire (sexually) and have indeed gotten burned. This sin has taken a serious toll on my life spiritually and physically, but God forgave me and I know that I am covered by His grace and mercy...however, I still feel like damaged goods.

    I've sinned, and don't feel like I am at the end of conversations that revolve around "being pure for God and being able to be used by Him". I have stepped up my prayer life, my devotion times with Him, and have been nurturing an amazing new relationship with Him, but I still don't feel worthy of being able to help others.

    I mean, look at me. I've sinned and turned my back against my First Love, how can I be used and be seen as pure in any sense because of that? I want SO BADLY to be healed (physically and spiritually) and to be used of God to reach out to younger women through my testimony, especially to encourage them not to "stir up nor awaken love until it pleases" (Song of Solomon 2:7), but can I really do that being "damaged goods"?

    Thanks for listening,
    Little Sister in Christ
    posted by serenity516
    on Monday, April 30, 2012 at 7:10 am
  30. "Damaged Goods"

    Hi...I'm new to this whole "blogging" thing, but I really needed to reach out to some strong women of God about my struggles along the lines of Playing With Fire.

    To sum it up, I feel like damaged goods. I have played with fire (sexually) and have indeed gotten burned. This sin has taken a serious toll on my life spiritually and physically, but God forgave me and I know that I am covered by His grace and mercy...however, I still feel like damaged goods.

    I've sinned, and don't feel like I am at the end of conversations that revolve around "being pure for God and being able to be used by Him". I have stepped up my prayer life, my devotion times with Him, and have been nurturing an amazing new relationship with Him, but I still don't feel worthy of being able to help others.

    I mean, look at me. I've sinned and turned my back against my First Love, how can I be used and be seen as pure in any sense because of that? I want SO BADLY to be healed (physically and spiritually) and to be used of God to reach out to younger women through my testimony, especially to encourage them not to "stir up nor awaken love until it pleases" (Song of Solomon 2:7), but can I really do that being "damaged goods"?

    Thanks for listening,
    Little Sister in Christ
    posted by serenity516
    on Monday, April 30, 2012 at 1:39 pm
  31. Damaged goods…
    Sin brings such grievous circumstances…and the sadness over our sin is one of those. The only place you can find release from the feeling of being damaged goods is with the Lord. Your sin cannot be erased, but the grace and mercy that you experience from the Lord when you have sought forgiveness of your sin and the “cleansing” (1 John 1:9) that He brings, will be that which gives you peace, hope, joy (Rom. 15:13) and the privilege of investing truth in others’ lives.

    Get in a disciplined Bible Study. It is in building precepts of truth upon precepts of truth, faith upon faith, that one finds that deep relationship with Christ. Perhaps your church offers a weekly study with women, or another strong evangelical church in your city may, or check out Bible Study Fellowship or Community Bible Study. Whatever you do, get in a study with other women and let the love of Christ through the living Word of God flow over you.

    God will use your past instead of ignore it. You don’t need to “hide it” or “tuck it deep down inside” to be used. It is what you teach/reach others out of. When you feel ashamed of your past remember you have the opportunity to be a trophy of God's grace before those your life touches. They will see a living testimony of a God who saves, redeems, forgives, restores and gives grace beyond all measure. What a privilege to show these things—things "into which angels long to look" (1 Pet. 1:12).

    Perhaps you will find Dannah Gresh's book “The Secret of The Lord” to be a helpful resource as you seek to break free from the lie that you are "stained for life" because of your past. Dannah's testimony will be an inspiration to you. http://purefreedom.org/bookSecretOfTheLord.htm
    God bless you. Don't give up, don't give in. Fall in love with the Savior; He will fill the empty/hurting places of your heart. I am praying for you.
    posted by Sarah, with the TW Team
    on Monday, April 30, 2012 at 11:20 pm

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