I’m not reading Fifty Shades of Grey.
I wasn’t planning to announce this, but I can’t help myself. I told my husband, Bob, that I didn’t really want to get involved. But then, I found out my girlfriend’s seventy-year-old mom has her name on a long waiting list at the library to borrow Fifty Shades of Grey. And then my mom told me that a relative I love and respect for her strong faith had already devoured the book. She regretfully “can’t get the images out of her head.” So, here I am. In an attempt to keep the images out of yours, I’d like to explain to you why I’m not reading Fifty Shades of Grey.
Reason #1: Let’s start with the facts. Fifty Shades of Grey is classified as erotic fiction. According to one online dictionary, this genre of literature is defined as that which has “no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire.” I’ve been studying what God says about sexuality for fifteen years. According to Him, there is only one who should stimulate sexual desire in me: my husband. Since that’s God’s plan for my sexual desire, anything other than my husband creating arousal in me would be missing the mark of God’s intention. (Translation: It is sin.) Jesus said it this way: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” The same is true of a woman looking at or reading about a man. Reason #1? I believe reading erotica is sinful.
I guess I could stop there, but it won’t be enough for some of you. So let’s go to reason number two.
Reason #2: The Bible has said for thousands of years that lust is hurtful and harmful. Guess what? Biopsychologists and others are studying the effects of lust, pornography, and erotica on the brain and the body. They are finding that the Bible was, in fact, right. Over time, your body becomes conditioned to self-stimulation and gratification. It’s not just a preference. It’s physiological. The lust cuts a literal pathway in your brain tissue that’s kinda like a rut. A rut you better be prepared to get stuck in. While at first a little bit of erotica might give you a taste for your spouse, over time that rut reminds you how great you are at self-stimulation and how powerful your imagination can be. You’ll become less interested in real sex with your husband. (Both SELF magazine and The New Yorker ran articles on this phenomenon in recent years. They both suggested that if you want to have a great sex life, you better push pause on porn!) The fact is, erotica robs you of real sex. It’s not good for your marriage or future marriage.
Reason #3: Okay, we’re girls. And, sadly, a few of our guys have looked at porn. How’d that work for ya? How’d it make you feel? Did it cross your mind that you could never compare to the perfection created by lights, camera, and Photoshop? Well, he can’t compare to a plasticized, vanilla interpretation of manhood either.
Reason #4: Do you know what BDSM is? Bondage, dominance, sadism, and masochism. If you don’t know what those words mean, be glad. If you do know, you should understand that the most damaging part of Fifty Shades of Grey is that God created sex to be a partnership that’s fueled by love and self-giving, not pain and humiliation. It’s not just that this book misuses sex, it redefines it into something evil as the lead character dominates in a hurtful manner. How woman can enjoy that, I can’t understand! But I do have a theory. It seems to me that in our emasculating culture there is a hunger so great for strong men that women will stoop to bondage, dominance, sadism, and masochism for just a taste. Do yourself a favor, don’t!
You might be wondering if I’ve read the book. I haven’t. I don’t need to. There are many things in this world I need not partake in to discern that they are going to be harmful to me. God has given me more than fifty shades of truth in His Word and when just one of them is in conflict with my entertainment choices, I choose to pass! To be clear: I wouldn’t drive my Envoy into the front of an oncoming semi-truck any more than I would open the pages of Fifty Shades of Grey. I love my marriage, my God, and myself too much.
If your heart resonates with mine, please take a moment today to post these words on Facebook or Twitter: “I’m not reading Fifty Shades of Grey.” If you have friends who need help understanding why, send them to this blog. I’d be happy to explain!
Comments
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 8:20 am
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 8:28 am
Perhaps the most disturbing thing for me? All the moms referred to this book as "mommy porn". I can't imagine women sitting around chatting about "daddy porn". I'm sure if any woman found her husband viewing any porn, she would not be bragging about it at her son's game.
Thank you for the courage to compose this post. I knew this information, but said nothing. I'm thankful for your boldness.
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 9:03 am
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 10:22 am
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 10:42 am
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 11:28 am
So while I certainly stand behind the decision not to read porn, please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! God gave us imaginations; use them.
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 12:26 pm
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 2:11 pm
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 2:48 pm
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 5:40 pm
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 5:42 pm
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 6:14 pm
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 8:20 pm
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 8:24 pm
on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 11:13 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:02 am
Your statement about having stopped watching tv has caught my attention particularly because my fiance and I are praying and planning to not have a tv in our house when married. He is struggling with it as he finds it difficult to leave his family in the tv room and go pray and read his bible in his bedroom. I don't struggle with tv,the Lord has helped to have self control over this. I just can't imagine not having a tv in the house and that thought scares me like what can be a form of entertainment and being informed like watching news etc. Can you plz give some insight.
Thanks
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:24 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 8:06 am
I got involved in reading books that stimuates lust as a young teen. It has affected me just as Dannah has said. I try not to read books like this although sometimes it's in other types of books as well as movies that are R rated. I will not read this book as a single women and as one who would like to get married and wants to be satisfied by my husband.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:08 am
Surely "Fifty Shades of Grey" is a book to avoid to ensure that we are not taking in those lustful, sensual thoughts, but instead filling our minds with the Word and thoughts of God. Nancy closed her booklet with a beautiful prayer that would be fitting to share here:
"Father, how we thank You for giving us Your Word to teach us how to live as wise women in this godless age. We confess that we have often been foolish women. Please search our hearts and show us any foolish ways that You find, that we may repent and turn to Christ who is our wisdom and our righteousness. Deliver us, O God, from our foolishness. And raise up in our day a new breed of women--holy women; women who trust in You; wise women who will build up their homes. We surrender ourselves afresh to You. May our lives bring You glory and fulfill Your purposes here on this earth. In Jesus' Name, Amen."
I add my "Amen" too!
Blessings,
Arlene
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:21 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:23 am
Thanks for the article. Reposting on FB.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:35 am
It's satan's trap!
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:10 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:20 am
Maybe not everyone needs to take such a radical route. But for some of us (speaking very much to and for myself here), wisdom in picking the reading material is very necessary. There is some fictional stuff (Marion Zimmer Bradley being one of the authors) that I won't touch anymore. In others, I, too, believe that God has spoken to me to close certain books for good. We need to do what is necessary and listen to God; each of us individually.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:27 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:31 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:33 am
My husband and I have a TV but no channels. We use it to watch DVDs, once or twice a week. Personally, I don't miss TV. When we go to my parent's house, Dad always has the TV on and it actually annoys me. For the TV series that my friends with taste recommend, watching them either after they are released to DVD, or on the channel's website, hasn't hurt me a bit.
For entertainment, books are great (though I feel a bit silly recommending them right after this blog!) DVDs let you watch movies together but still put limits on how long you'll spend watching. (Movie night is one of our favorite in-house dates.) Hobbies, doing projects together, music at the local coffee shop, Bible study, board/card games even exercise-like things can be entertaining. You'll find that after TV has been gone for a while, you are able to see fun in places you might not have considered before. In my opinion, TV actually teaches us to expect all entertainment to be big and scheduled when most of it is actually small and ongoing.
For news: the internet. Or local paper. Or friend/like someone on facebook/twitter who frequently posts about news topics you would care about. News is another thing that, in my opinion, overexposure to overstimulates us to. Most of it I can't do anything about and the ones that will touch my life, I hear about via the places I mentioned.
I hope that gives you some information that can help you make a decision. I'd encourage you to spend a year w/o TV and see what you both think then.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:40 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:43 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:45 am
But ultimately, do you as a Christian really want to have that kind of filth in your mind - your memory?? Yuck. I used to read "trash" novels a long time ago and no longer do so - because I realized what it really was: Porn with a plot. Interestingly, there is an episode from the TV series Friends where Rachel is reading a "trash novel" and Joey calls it what it is - porn. If Hollywood recognizes it for what it is, shouldn't we?
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:48 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:51 am
Now, all of this being said. Why does no one comment like this on the Song of Songs??? Is it because it is indeed in the Bible and "dirty words" are not used? The Song of Songs conjures up just as many powerfully sexual images as the 50 Shades books do, there is just no character involvement or story line to follow!
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:07 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:14 am
The way you speak of the male lead character of this book demonstrates why we have to be careful about the fiction that we read. You obviously have strong feelings about this character and how he was 100% romantic and then you compare this character to real-life husbands. That right there is one of the dangers for women who read romantic fiction. We are not turned on by visual images like men who look at porn, but a romantic novel about the "perfect" guy can really get us going, and we start comparing this character to our husband who leaves his wet towels on the floor or snores or forgets our birthday, and we start thinking, "Why can't I have something better?" That is the danger of these books. They breed discontent. Not a good thing.
You say, "Yes, the sex is graphic, but no more than nearly every other book on the market." I am an avid reader. I read at least one book a week, and I don't read books with graphic sexual depictions. So, I'd suggest that you start reading better books if you think that nearly every book on the market is like this one.
And, yes, reading books about fictional characters can most definitely be compared to porn. Porn stars are normal people who put on an act when they make porn movies. They don't go around every day acting like they do in their movies. They are actors! It is fiction! And the characters in the books are fictitious! One is visual, the other is using the written word, but we, as readers, create the visual images in our heads. That's what good readers are supposed to do.
Are you saying that if porn had more romance, it would be okay? You care about romance because you are a women and romance is important to you.
I'm glad you have a happy marriage. Why don't you stop reading these books and create your own romantic story to turn you on?
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:16 am
I think if you are defending the book with such vigor, you might want to revisit exactly why you think it was such a great book & think about if you would want your daughter to read such a book.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:19 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:20 am
I am not saying my mind cannot recreate it.. I am saying that it is my mind.. and I control it... I control how graphic it is visually… and how I perceive it. My point is… it is more than just that. And by no means do those images stay in my mind… I guess it is because I fill my mind with other things… things that are more fulfilling than that. I fill it with the love that is in the book. The acts of kindness… I do not dwell on the sexual content of the book. I guess.. it just depends on how your mind works. Mine behaves.. and it listens to me. I find the book for the most part… hilarious. I find it ingenious how the author has created two supporting characters from figures of the leads own subconscious. (Ana’s subconscious and inner goddess.) They are hilarious.. one pure and proper.. the other completely sexual. Which because of her lack of experience..their interaction is hilarious. The story actually reminds me a lot of Pretty Woman… many scenes are extremely close... My point is…I do not want others dictating what others read…and passing judgment on those who do… I feel it is wrong. If all you take from this book is the sexual parts… then you have missed SO MUCH more. Because it is MORE than that.
@Marie… thanks! :)
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:25 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:37 am
See this is what I am getting at… I have not judged any of you… it is your choice.. but just as it is your choice it is also mine. But yet… you attack me and my marriage for reading a book???? My marriage is romantic… loving… and kind. Of course I find romance in the fact that he does pick up after himself.. or that he makes our bed… or how he kisses my bye everyone morning… or puts surprise gifts on my pillow for when I get home… it is all about perception. We have two teenage boys… who learn from their fathers great acts of kindness. That is what is important to me…. it is how others treat each other. How we respect each other.. and give love.. and do not judge. I have unconditional love… (that is the Christian way.) I do not worry about others sin.. I only worry about my own. With the divorce rate as high as it is… if this books puts passion is five marriages that are about to dissolve… then I praise it (that is why I want men to read it.. not for my marriage… but for others). The books I read range from religious.. to emotional turmoil… and horrific tragedy. For me.. it helps me understand.. to have unconditional love… about things that I have not experienced. It helps me grow as a person.. and as a Christian. Sometimes we have to experience things (even if through words) to understand them… in order to help others. Every book I read… I learn something new.. and I experience something from it.. and it helps me be a better person… an understanding mother.. wife… sister.. and daughter. I do not find love passing between two consenting adults vulgar in any way.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:45 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:54 am
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:59 am
Perhaps, rather than try to convince other Christian women how great a book you think it is, perhaps think about the fact if you would read the book out loud to Jesus. Would He be pleased that you have chosen to read such a book? Would you (truly in your heart, now!) be embarrassed to read the book out loud to Him?
The comment saying that the story is more than the sex the story is rather like the concept of a little bit of dog poo would not spoil a whole pan of perfectly good brownies. Renee' is correct in her observations.
YFaith, no one said you could not read the book, but it was stated that it was not in your best interest to read the book. No, I won't be reading the book - I read enough of the like when I was young and clueless about the damage it can do. I am happy to miss out on whatever it is truly about. I simply cannot imagine that Jesus is thrilled that this book was written and that Christian women are reading & defending it.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:01 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:02 pm
We don't need this filth in our minds.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:18 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:24 pm
I agree that this is something that should not be read. No I haven't read it. If a book has sex in it I wont give in to the temptation. I read all sorts of books. But even romance books that don't have in appropriate material in it can give you an inaccurate view of marriage. I allow my teenage girls to read certain types but rarely is it the "popular" stuff.
Song of Solomon is not graphic.. Its not erotica or even trashy novel material..
Satan does slip in where ever he can to lead us into temptation. I tried to tell myself that as long as the porn and erotica was between me and my husband it was okay.. It wasn't, it degraded my personal image of myself, it cheapened our sex life and got to the point that we had to have it to enjoy each other which makes no sense at all to me now.
Compromising when it comes to God and his word is never a good thing Ever! Please dont fall for the enemies ploys...
Thank you for posting this!
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:29 pm
The first thought I had when I was told of the content of this book was how similar the mind set would be as to the people of midevil times being entertained by the killing of Christians in the Coloseum, the complete disregard for anything moral.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:35 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:00 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:00 pm
I suppose since Jesus knows all… I am reading it to him… and no... I am not embarrassed, because I know he loves me.. all of me. I feel I have done far worse that would disappoint him.. I am sure we all have. I also do not live in a time where I am naive enough to believe that people wait till they are married to engage in sex. (Do I condone it.. No… do I condemn it.. No.) Believe me.. It is not my intentions to convince others to read it.. it is to prevent judgment on those who have. It saddens me that others are so quick to change their opinions of people because they have read this book. When there are other things in the Bible that I am sure if we all took a closer look at we are all guilty of.. after all in Gods eyes.. all sin is equal. Simple things like… treating our bodies like temples could be perceived as eating junk food as wrong… smoking or drinking. We can all find wrong in others… but is it our place to point the finger. I would never persuade anyone to do anything they find wrong… but I also would not tear anyone apart for doing it. I have too much love for human kindness for that. I love that women are finding enjoyment out of this book (it is about time!)… we are raised to feel ashamed almost for enjoying our sexuality.. where men are applauded for it. Our bodies were designed by God… and he designed them so that we would enjoy it… and there is nothing embarrassing or shameful about that. It is no different than watching soap operas… which women have been getting a boost from them for years… and I seriously doubt that is the reason for the divorce rates being so high. I find Dancing with the Stars risqué… because it is hard for me to watch real married men and women dance so intimately with people other than their spouses.. and with little on… yet no one is attaching the people who watch it… it doesn’t have to be in black and white to imagine sex… or to have an inappropriate thought. And you don’t have to see the act… to imagine it… so what is the difference... how can we condemned others for what they imagine in their minds... or think to themselves... It is silly to even consider it.
It’s been a pleasure ladies. :)
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:04 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:04 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:04 pm
When Jesus was saying Don't judge lest you be judged He was talking about being a hyprocrite!!! Stop taking God's word out of context to fit you convicting needs. Look the book isnt lined up with God's word. If you have read it and feel God convicting you great! Go repent! If you have read it and feel no conviction I would encourage you to ask God where doesn't it line up with His Word. I really pray that God does convict those and that you are sensitive to God's heart. Cause in the long run, you don't have to face this author that wrote the book,you don't have to face us ,but you do have to face God and you are without excuse cause the warning has been right here all along! God bless!
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:23 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:40 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:43 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:45 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:49 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:52 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 1:54 pm
As a writer myself, I'm deeply disturbed by the "Mommy Porn" movement and the women who are promoting and "enjoying" it.
I have not read the Fifty Shades series. I have no plans to do so.
When asked WHY I won't be reading it, from now on I'll refer everyone to your post.
Thanks so much!
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:04 pm
2. If this is not convicting you, then why do you care what other people think of the book?
3. If I believed you were about to be run over by a bus, would you want me to warn you?
Just putting that out ther.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:07 pm
To those who are commenting about the book's positives: I suppose it's possible that erotic words don't affect you. I would rather not trust myself. I'd rather just take the safer route. The Bible says that "a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough" (1 Cor 5:6, Gal 5:9). But please don't be offended by this blog's judgement of the book. She's not judging you or any other person. She's judging a book that has the potential to introduce sin into our lives and for that she should be commended. It's up to you and your conviction to decide whether or not you should read it. God bless all of you and I pray that His Spirit leads each and every one of you closer to Him.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:09 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:11 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:20 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:28 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:31 pm
BDSM stands for Bondage. Dominance. Sadism. Masochism.
Sadism? Masochism? In psychiatry, the terms sadism and masochism describe a personality type characterized by the actor or actrix deriving pleasure and gratification from inflicting physical pain and humiliation. The terms specifically refer to one who either enjoys giving pain (sadist), or one who enjoys receiving pain (masochist). These are words that are direct counterfeits of God’s attributes.
Bondage? Jesus came to set the captives free. (See Isaiah.)
Dominance? He emptied himself. (See Phil 2. Esteem one another.)
God never desires us to seek pain or to give pain to others. On the contrary, he created marriage to be a picture of his love. (See Ephesians 5:31,32) If that’s so, the marriage bed must be a tender reflection of deep knowing and respect. Why, he even uses the word yada to describe what should happen in that place. Yada means “to know, to be known, to be deeply respected.” No mention of the physical act happening, it is to transcend the physical to be an act of knowing and respect. In the marriage bed, we can experience this knowing.
Is the marriage bed always undefiled?
Some have argued that it is, no matter what happens in it. This is not true. To use that verse out of context is to imply that whatever goes on in the marriage bed is by definition “undefiled.” That is a perversion of the verse. It is the exact opposite of what that verse is trying to say. Marriage is honorable and the bed is TO BE undefiled. “Honorable”or “honoring” is the opposite of sadism, masochism, bondage and dominance. It is the ultimate oxymoron—the term “honorable sadist” may have never before been uttered.
Fifty Shades of Grey is full of bondage, dominance, sadism, and masochism. On that test alone, it is not something I need to fill my mind with.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:38 pm
To those offended that Dannah would make her bold assertions without reading the book, I ask:
Have you read the whole Bible through? How can you claim that the issues you're discussing aren't directly addressed? I assure you they are.
We have become experts on every author's book but God's.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:50 pm
In reading the responses, I can't help but be disturbed by the responses of those who claim that this blog post is illegitimate because a book and the moral actions it describes are being judged (Oh, horror!). "Christians aren't supposed to judge!" And so the oft-repeated wail goes up, that cry of false indignation that Satan uses to silence the Church from having any positive impact on the culture around us.
"Judge not lest ye be judged." This is probably the most popularly quoted verse in the Bible, quoted by Christians and non-Christians alike, with one goal: silencing Christians from stating any sort of moral opinion or from bringing the Bible to bear in their everyday lives. But the above verse needs to be interpreted along with the whole of scripture, not pulled out of context and turned into a giant club to beat so-called "judgmental" people up with (that, by the way, is a form of judging).
Everyone seems to forget that Christians, in multiple places throughout the Bible (including in Matthew 7 & 8, the same chapter and the very next chapter after the "Judge not" quote), are required (1) to judge their own personal salvation (2 Cor. 13:5), (2) to judge the works of those who claim to be their fellow believers (thrusting them out of the church if need be)(Matt. 8, 1 Cor. 5, John 7:24), (3) to judge according to Scripture anything that we are instructed to believe or do, even when it is an authority figure in the church or some other influential/popular person (Matthew 7:15-17, and many others in the Pauline Epistles), (4) to take action against any thought or belief that sets itself against God and His Word (a form of judging)(2 Cor. 10:5), and (5) we are told that one day we will also judge the world and angels (1 Cor. 6:2-4). It looks like "judging" is very much a part of our job description. So what does the verse about not judging mean? It seems that we are not to make Pharisaical judgments, caring about the letter of the law but not it's substance (or whether we're willing to follow it, too, or not), or just trying to make ourselves feel better rather than trying to help or protect others.
Now, to tie this back to the blog post above... The spirit of the above blog post is to judge a book (not necessarily it's author or it's readers) as unhelpful for Christians to read. If you disagree with that, fine, but Dannah is not out-of-line for making such a judgment, and she, for one, actually uses Scripture to back her up, unlike her detractors (unless you count the passing usage of "judge not"). God, in His word, is very clear about what sin is. If we do not follow His lead and make it clear to the world what God says sin is, how will they ever see a need to repent and turn to Him for mercy and grace? We must be just as ready as God to forgive and embrace the repentant sinner, but we can't gloss over the rampant sin in our world and say, "Do I condemn it? No. Do I condone it? No." God has not called us to sit on the fence. All of us are called to preach sin, righteousness, and judgment to this dying world so that people will see the truth. If we sit on the fence or "do as the Romans do," then the world is correct in thinking that we have nothing whatsoever to offer it. Why be saved into the same system it just left? Why go to the trouble of adding the term "Christian" to my life if it doesn't make any difference to how I live?
God has called us to lives of purity and holiness. I am not a goody-two-shoes, holier-than-thou person. I've done lots of bad stuff in my life. We all have. I'm not asking anyone to pretend that we haven't. I'm asking everyone to stop pretending that we aren't at war. Folks, this is war, and there are millions who we need to reach with the Gospel message: "Hey you! You're drowning! I know you don't want to accept that, but it's true. And if you will grab onto this life preserver, you can be pulled out. Hey, stop letting go! You don't need that book. Or the laptop. Or your girlfriend. They can't save you. Grab the life preserver with both hands!" ... And so it goes. That's our situation, and if we aren't willing to go out there in the world and call a spade a spade, we are doing God and our fellow man a great disservice.
Thanks to Dannah and Co. for having the courage to do just that.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 2:54 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Females are naturally emotionally driven, and words are most commonly the delight of the female ear (i.e.: "You look beautiful tonight." etc.) Females also are inherently and naturally better at creating mental images or recalling mental images, whether it be conjecture or truth, based on words, music, phrases, smells, etc.
I believe people are forgetting that it is the genetics of a man to be moreover visually stimulated than a female. For all humans, reading words revs the emotional gear because we have to throw the book into a creative narrative (like a mental movie)(mental catalogue for the reading of non-fiction or research) to be able to enjoy it. Otherwise you're reading a dictionary.
With detailed graphic descriptions, it's hard - nearly impossible - to say it cannot be compared to "porn" because mentally processing the images is nearly the same. Unless you are asexual, each word or image will be processed through the sensual part of the mind.
It's not opinion; it's logic, physiology, psychology and common sense.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:03 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:14 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:25 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:26 pm
I recently listened to a sermon about holiness by James Macdonald. It really challenged me and reminded me that as a Christian I am called to be separate and not to dabble with things of this world. (Listen to it! Holiness means separation from April 12 & 13, 2011)
Thanks, Dannah, for sharing! I pray that God would use what you've written to challenge others to choose holiness as well!
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:30 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:33 pm
What is wrong with people taking ideas, beliefs, and reality seriously? We're not living in a game show! This world is full of hurting, dying people. "Lighten up" is not a command I've found anywhere in the Bible. Rather we are called to expose the evil works of darkness with the light of Scripture. The reason this world, and far too many Christians, refuse to take this life and the evils around them seriously is because if they did, they know they would have to do something, and they are unwilling to lift a finger to help change the world, preferring to entertain themselves and block out their responsibility to be salt and light in a dark and dying world. If you're on the easy road, you're on the wrong road. If you aren't being persecuted by the world, you're preaching the wrong gospel.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:37 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:53 pm
I have been an avid reader since I was six (I annoyed the older kids into bringing their high school lit books home so I would have something new to read) but have found myself totally disenchanted by much of the new fiction of the last decade or more. (Even the cover art on some of it puts me completely on the side of those parents who do not allow their little ones into the new book section of the library.)
I am reading more non-fiction or re-reading tried and true authors. It is as if 'they' are afraid to publish a book that is not full of graphic description from mankind's dark side. The last popular series I read was Harry Potter; by The Deathly Hallows I was wondering why she had even written it--I don't remember the ending, it was so empty. I still find an occasional gem on the bookshelf, but they are rare. Thank goodness I have reached an age where I can actually appreciate some of those classics they pushed on us in school!
We are stewards of the body and mind and spirit that God has given us. We are strongly encouraged to avoid polluting our physical world; I think we should be at least that concerned about our interior world, since that is what makes us who we are.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 3:57 pm
"First of all the book is not only about “sex”."
The "apple" in the garden wasn't just about the apple either was it-we know where that led.
*******
As previously said I do not agree with this book, books or movies like this and would NOT recommend it to anyone.
For ME, God says "Be Holy as I am Holy" and for ME that means not applying myself to "what I call satan's trap", I believe it's a snare.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 4:00 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 4:01 pm
And as for sinning, wow.
Most ignorant post Ive read.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 4:03 pm
I won't be reading this book. I used to read soft-cover Romance novels a long time ago and I gave them up when I realized that I was looking at my husband and was expecting him to look and act like the heroes in some of these books.
Many years ago I saw a Japanese film where a woman was carried to an out-of-way place and hanged for cheating on her husband. This bothered me so much that if someone mentions foreign films, I still have that visual in my mind as if it were yesterday.
And, yet it was a written joke that I read 20 years ago that still pops into my head whenever I think about the Holy Spirit being the spouse of Mary. It was a gross and crude reference and Satan still uses it to distract me from my prayers.
Now, I look at everything and ask myself "Will this help me in eternity?" If the answer is no; then I don't see that film, watch that TV show, or read that book.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 4:26 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 4:30 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 4:36 pm
I am blessed to be married to a man whom loves God first and me second. What do you suppose it means to love God first?
In my life, loving God first means I strive to give Him my best, knowing I must lean on Him each step of the way. In my younger years, living for God meant I asked my mother to please homeschool me through high school because I believed the temptation possibly too strong for me to resist having a boyfriend, and then who knows what morals I might compromise if I started that spiral. In my life, I needed to rely on certain boundaries for a time until God in His grace gave me victory in my surrendering my desires to Him and His awesome purpose. Btw, God has our good in mind, He desires us to be abundantly happy and to give us His very best in His best plan.
To all you readers, specifically to those who believe saving yourself for marriage isn't actually attained anymore, please be encouraged that by Gods grace, I was preserved a virgin for my husband. As a teenager, I saw great value in my virginity, and proclaimed the importance of this choice to others. But not until my married years have I realized the amazing benefits in desiring to be pure, body, soul, mind, and spirit. I have talked to woman who did not wait until marriage, and sex is so dirty to them, even with their husbands. To me, the marriage bed is holy. Not only that, do you think that justifying any impure media could possibly make something so holy (as sex was designed to be in the context of marriage) could possibly affect your heart in a holy way?
Soft porn, hard porn, a glimpse of this a hint of that, it's all the same, less than God's intended. Even engaging in thoughts of envy of characteristics of another's spouse, or a hero in a fiction book, it's sin. Hmmm let's see, though shalt not covet, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not have any gods (idols) before Me...
Yes, we are commended to judge, but only by the Word of God. Point being so that we are able to lovingly encourage others to see in truth and be convicted of the sin God speaks to their heart, repent, and be saved. Because at the last day, or when they die, whichever comes first, they will be judged, but not by me, by God.
Do we as Christians love one another enough? We have to be STUDYING God's Word regularly to know how to do that. Otherwise we take the Bible out of context and for example, tell everyone we're not supposed to judge anything at all. We are supposed to judge rightly, with Gods Word, not with our opinions or anyone else's.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 5:00 pm
I say this, because, attending conferences on this topic, hearing statistics, and seeing the effects of this crime on young girls (and boys), has opened my eyes to a problem many (myself included) have not previously thought of. Talk to anyone gathering information on the causes of this worldwide travesty, and many will say that one of the main causes of this form of slavery is the subjugation of women in a culture starved for sexual gratification. This is not something that happened overnight, but a form of addiction created over many decades as the availability of pornography, erotica, etc. has astronomically grown. Even images and slogans in advertising are used to portray women as toys or tools to be used as seen fit. The textbook example of a "Slippery Slope" of small things here and there that continue to build up over years until it is not even seen as wrong.
Also, through scientific research, we have learned that, subconsciously, our brains process information, store it accordingly, and act on it continuously throughout the day. This means that even without realizing it, our lives are impacted by ALL stimuli around us, not just what we consciously decide to let affect us. This contradicts the arguments of those who state that reading erotic fiction has no effect on their thoughts, because they choose not to let it. It does effect us, and, you can see the impact in our culture if you just choose to look for it. The existence of sex trafficking in our country is only one example of this truth.
It is the widespread acceptance of sex as a means of fulfillment through whatever means possible that has contributed to the bondage of many millions of people around the world. Are we not, as followers of Christ, called to set the captives free? Why then, would we think it is okay, even for a moment, to find satisfaction in the bondage and dominance over another human being for ones own gratification? Why would we read about this, and call it entertainment? Bondage is not entertaining, it is something we, as Christians should fight against, and proclaim freedom to those caught in it.
That being said, we all need to make decisions for ourselves, yes, and not judge others harshly for sins we struggle with ourselves. It is true also though, that we are told in Philippians 4 to think about whatever is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent or praiseworthy. This is the standard we should use to filter what we choose to expose ourselves to. When we do this, what choices might we make differently?
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 5:04 pm
After all, they're big boys and it shouldn't affect them (or YOU), right?
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 5:21 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 5:50 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 5:57 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 6:06 pm
I see a lot of judgement here and it scares me from going back to church. I read the book and to be honest, I didn't like it all that much but I would never not read a book because what I thought it might contain....I read it and made up my mind. It doesn't make me a sinner or a bad person. Just a thought....maybe stop judging others and trying to be so mighty....it turns the people off who you are supposed to be witnessing to.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 6:33 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 6:35 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 6:39 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 6:43 pm
Also, I think it's interesting that some Christians think that Ana should be credited as being extra moral because she was 21 and a virgin and really considered before getting involved in a sexual relationship. I would think that's backwards. Isn't it worse when we have the wherewithal to consider a sin before doing it? Our own judicial system seems to think so. There's a difference between manslaughter and premeditated murder, as in we consider the premeditated murder to be worse not better because he really put a lot of thought into it first. Or am I just totally missing something?
I won't be reading 50 Shades of Grey. But that's not really saying much because I don't really read romance novels anymore. Not because I feel I can't, they just don't hold much interest for me now that I have such a beautiful romance of my own. To me reading a romance novel is akin to listening to my iPod while at a live concert. I wish all women were as fortunate as I am to have that kind of marriage. At this moment I am feeling very blessed. ;)
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 6:44 pm
Also, as I have had to counsel young women involved with controlling men who behave like the "hero" in this story, young ladies, when someone like that comes into your life, RUN! This is not just fiction; it is fantasy. No man who enjoys such things knows how to love like Christ loves the church. You will be used, and when he is done fulfilling his fantasy, you will be tossed away. I've seen too many women and girls hurt by "fascinating" men to think this is harmless.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 7:07 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 7:13 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 7:22 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 7:54 pm
It reminds me very much of the alcohol argument.
The argument basically goes that alcohol is inherently bad because people get addicted to it and get drunk and abusive.
Many people DON'T get drunk and abusive while drinking alcohol though and argue that it's not the alcohol that's bad but the physiological and maybe even spiritual makeup of some people that is the problem.
I think the same goes for this book. SOME people, like @yfaith have no problem reading it because their unique makeup helps them not fall into sin because of it.
Other people will be caused to struggle or fall by reading it.
Others still will not necessarily spiral downward from it but will simply not be able to see the positives from the parts which make them uncomfortable.
I think the wording we use is very important when talking about things like this with each other but I do not think it is wrong for the writer of the article to give a warning to us about the content of the novel and what repercussions that may have in us.
I don't feel it will cause me to stumble but thanks to this article, I'm going to avoid it just in case - and I'm not going to miss out on anything by doing so!
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 7:59 pm
The enemy is using such books to attract Christians and non-Christians away from the Lord. If he can catch you with a fictional book about porn, he can lead you to the real thing.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 8:07 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 8:20 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 8:26 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 8:28 pm
Twilight for instance, there isnt any language OR SEX!!! So please, please tell me why its inaporpriate? Because you imagine a vampire, who isnt killing humans? COME ON!!!
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 8:30 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:00 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Psalm 101:3a
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:16 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:25 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:25 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:49 pm
Think of what you are saying. Are you serious?
C.S. Lewis, Tolkien, Dostoevsky, Dickens, Willa Cather, Victor Hugo.....just to name a few.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 9:53 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:03 pm
I loved reading Christian fiction. It was my favorite hobby and I often read a book a day. I felt God telling me to give it up because He had better things for me to put into my mind. I was 100% convinced this was what God wanted for me. So in obedience to Him I gave up my fiction and started reading quality books full of spiritual truths. I read my Bible more and grew by leaps and bounds in my faith and personal relationship with God. For me, disobedience to what God was calling me to do would have been sin. I'm sure there are others with a tender spirit to God's leading who have also obeyed this call. It is a small sacrifice compared to what God has blessed me with in my obedience to Him.
Regarding this particular book, I cannot fathom a mature Christian woman who has a tender conscience toward God reading a book filled with sensuality and immorality. Both are fruits of the flesh, not fruits of the spirit. There are so many verses in Scripture that call us to have pure hearts and minds; to have NOTHING to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness; be wise unto what is good and INNOCENT about what is evil; keep our minds from being polluted by the word; take EVERY thought captive to the obedience of Christ...on and on it goes. We don't have to read the book to discern whether it violates commands of Scripture.
In our culture we have given up discernment because we don't want to be called judgmental. Discernment IS wisdom; it is a gift from God. Ladies please don't let the world bully you into silence for fear of being called judgmental. Keep a tender conscience toward God and be rewarded by obedience! It is far better than any trashy novel!
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:11 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:12 pm
Maggie :)
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:13 pm
First of all, I was hiding the book. I didn't want my kids to see it. But what is that - to have to hide something that is potentially harmful to my kids? What if they found it? If I have to hide it, then it's wrong. Also, I felt the Lord with me as I was reading. I can't shut Him off or politely ask him to take a break so I can read the book. He's with me all of the time. It was uncomfortable - and whenever I find myself wanting to hide from the presence of God, well, you know. So I got rid of it. I'm glad He's with me - because being alone the past decade should have been a bigger tragedy and struggle than it has been - because I wasn't really ever alone. And even though I continue to struggle with natural human feelings and desires, I am still learning to sit back and wait while the Lord shows me His way.
That said, I know this book is very tempting to many women. Believe me, I understand that. I know that struggle. However, there is no beautiful or "loving" way to dress up fornication, nor the humiliation of bdsm, and I do believe that using sex that way absolutely contrary to the passionate, loving and ultimately fulfilling act that He created.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:14 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:17 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:20 pm
just saying do not judge unless the be judge.. love thy neighbor even if they choice another way then u..
I have read the books.. I love them.. there is more to the book then sex.. yes it's then and it's nuts.. but there is love story behind it..
also if I'm a sinner for look at the statue of david or mosses in your eyes cause I look at them!! LOL just saying remember there is sex in the bible too.. so guess if u read the bible your a sinner.. just saying I read the bible too.. and the part where the girls get their dad drunk and slept with him to bare him a son.. yeah that worst when whats in 50 shades of gray..
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:28 pm
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Cheers! :D
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:39 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:39 pm
Seriously? You've NEVER looked at a man "lustfully"? An actor, a singer, a sports player, a random man on the street? According to your quote above - we must all be big fat sinners. (David Beckham anyone? George Clooney, Ryan Reynolds?)
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:44 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:50 pm
Thanks Dannah for taking the stand. I took a stand for the marriage amendment(marriage is between one woman and one man) law for NC and got blasted out by all sorts of people for judging and believe it or not Christians voted against that so I am not surprised that people are supporting this book.
On every subject known to man some agree or disagree it is human nature in our fallen world.
We are called to warn our fellow Christians not to stumble and this book obviously could cause others to stumble
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:51 pm
There is no grey areas (pun intended) in our lives on earth. Everything we do, say, and yes - read - either are towards the goal of glorifying Christ or not. That isn't judgmental. That is simply scriptural.
You can argue until your blue in the face, or fingers, but the TRUTH is found in one book - and ONLY one book...
"Turn my eyes from worthless things, and give me life through your word." Psalm 119:37
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 10:58 pm
Otherwise, great job.
ps, I haven't (and won't) read it either.
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:01 pm
on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 11:11 pm
However, there is a MAJOR difference between a book obviously created in a fictional world than one set in a realistic one. Several years ago I heard all sorts of people ranting about The Da Vinci Code. I had never read any of these books, but I was of the mindset that one cannot judge a book they have not read-so I read it. Dan Brown does such a good job weaving his tale that I couldn't tell the fiction from the real, soon his "valid" points made me question my faith and the very existence of Jesus Christ.
As soon as I finished the book an overwhelming sadness filled me, as if I had lost part of my innocence. It would take me years to realize that what Brown artfully passed off as truth was no more real than the characters themselves. How I wish I had come across an article beforehand that disn't just tell me NOT to read it, but showed me why I shouldn't.
I am not a fan of bandwagon boycotts or uneducated opinions; but I am a fan of Phill 4:8 and protecting myself and others from allowing even the tiniest sliver of unholiness into our lives. When walking in muddy puddles, it's always best to wear rain boots.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:34 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:35 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:36 am
I applaud Dannah for having the boldness to stand for Truth in the face of adversity. It reminds me a lot of Paul and his preaching. I wonder how many times Paul was told to "stop judging." Paul gave practical examples of ways a Christian should live, and that is exactly what Dannah and other bloggers on this site have done.
I say this out of love for my fellow sisters in Christ, but maybe the reason some of you feel the need to be so defensive about reading/enjoying the book is that you feel convicted. God wants us to turn from our sinful ways and grow in Him. He can use whatever means He wants to get our attention, including a blog post that does not support a book.
I have a hard time understanding the argument that it is more than sex, it's a great love story. So? Is reading the graphic, unwholesome scenes worth it? Or those saying it creates a desire for their husbands, does your husband not create that desire himself? I don't want anything, whether it be television or printed word to conjure feelings that are meant only for my husband.
I don't say this with a "holier than thou" attitude, but rather coming from my own struggles to not let anything impure and unwholesome in my home. What I use as my filter is the quote "Christ is the head of this house; the unseen guest at every meal; the silent listener to every conversation." Would I want Christ to be a witness to me reading such things?
Since when do Christians justify sinful behavior with "oh, it's just a little sex?" Why give the enemy a foothold?
Someone mentioned earlier that they can control their thoughts. I would really like to know your secret. I would live to train my brain to never crop up a sinful thought before I have a chance to make it captive to obedience to Christ.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:41 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:44 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 1:13 am
Let me also say how sorry I am for ladies in our culture. Men are so pathetically bad. Most don't want to work, love, or value a woman the way Christ loves the church. They will have sex with you though. . . anytime. . . anywhere. I'm so, so sorry. Few church men know their Bibles, lead their families, or fight for what is right. Weak, fat, and lazy is the churchman. . . especially white churchmen. His great-great-great-great grandfather would barely recognize his descendants. That generation literally conquered the world. Today all the tough men are wicked. This was not always true. Tough men used to be Christian.
Men need your help ladies. They don't know how to be men. I say all of this because there are some sharp ladies reading and writing on this blog. Look up "masculine Christianity" of the 1800s. Find old books on the subject. Read them, give them to your husband and say "Honey, this is the kind of man I need you to be". Again ladies, I am so sorry you have to settle for nice, weak Christian men or bad, tough lost guys. Christian men used to be tough and strong. Perhaps with your help they can be again.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 1:24 am
Don't say it will undermine and destroy marriages. It might destroy others, but not mine. I believe it depends on how the couple believes and what they feel is OK for them.
And yes, I am a born-again, saved Christian on my way to heaven. Just tired of being "told" what to do and having "men" try and control me.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 1:31 am
The Bible never tells us to resist sexual temptation. It tells us to flee from it. I think that is because of the nature and power of sexual temptation. You have to guard your mind, avoid compromising situations, and stay close to God.
God's standards don't change, although the world's continue to drift further away. If we compare to the world, we are using the wrong standard. I cannot change anyone's mind who likes the book. I can say that personally, my "sensitivity" to sin in my entertainment choices has been increasing, and I've given up several shows I used to watch (the bachelor, dancing with the stars). I still have a long way to go, but I want to be striving for holiness, for myself and as an example for my kids.
One last thought...if you never watch or read things with cursing, and the people around you do not curse, then if you hear someone curse it is shocking, uncomfortable, almost painful to hear. But if you become desensitized to it, you can hear it and not even notice. It is the same I think with immorality. Something that is shocking to someone is 'no big deal' to someone else. The question is, which person do you want to be?
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:15 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:22 am
It is just a book. My husband does all of those things Yfaith mentioned... holds my hand in public, opens doors for me, cooks dinners for me, walks hand in hand into Church with our family, and we do have a wonderful sexual relationship... but again *gasp* HE recommended the book to me, because he knows I love a nightly read and he knows I would never step one toe outside our marriage, because HE keeps me completely satisfied. It's sad that many wives aren't that lucky. Just like Shari above said, it might destroy other relationships, but it is perfectly fine in mine, and I couldn't get him to tie me up, or beat me, or whatever, if I paid him. After all, my hubby brought the book up to me, not the other way around. We must be an abnormal couple.
One last thing, just like Shellina Guthrie said, what a Christian man and woman does physically behind closed doors between themselves, is nobody's business. I am not sure how the conversation got that far, but I agree with her as well... it is up to the couple what they do to spark, respark, pump up or maintain their love life. Better than going outside the marriage to commit adultry if you ask me.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:30 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:36 am
"Regarding this particular book, I cannot fathom a mature Christian woman who has a tender conscience toward God reading a book filled with sensuality and immorality. Both are fruits of the flesh, not fruits of the spirit. There are so many verses in Scripture that call us to have pure hearts and minds; to have NOTHING to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness; be wise unto what is good and INNOCENT about what is evil; keep our minds from being polluted by the word; take EVERY thought captive to the obedience of Christ...on and on it goes. We don't have to read the book to discern whether it violates commands of Scripture. "
I agree. HOWEVER. First of all, the Bible itself has sensuality and immorality in it. Not like 50 shades, but incest, love, and so much more is on many many pages of the Bible. Try reading it sometime.
I must say, that she (or any for that matter) better not watch TV... EVER. (think Victoria Secret commercials, or Men taking showers for soap commercials, etc) much less ANYTHING on Lifetime... Lifetime is 20000% worse than what these books are offering... My husband calls Lifetime the woman's lessons on how to kill her husband", or anything of the sorts. Better not listen to the radio either... even the Christian stations that I listen to, for my daily fix of Contemporary Christian music, have commercials that offer a VARIETY of things for us to think about and change our bodies, and the like. Oh and don't think about watching cartoons... I mean, after all, the purple TellyTubbie is gay, right? And the roadrunner is always in danger of being killed, and goodness, look at today's shows on Nick... all the sex and promiscuity going on there. And don't dare drive down the highway, especially when 40% of the billboards are for stripper clubs, and adult stores etc.
Where in life can you go that you DON'T see, or hear such stuff every single day? A monestary? We must all be horrible people. (and yes, by the way, I AM a Christian, and am even a PK for that matter). So if I am a sinner for reading a book, then so be it. But as far as I am concerned, let he who sins not (which is all of us in VARIOUS ways) cast the first stone.
There is so much worse out there... SO much worse... whether you know it or not, you are putting "this mess" into your mind and thoughts every single day, even in the smallest of ways... simply by existing in this world. Think about it.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:45 am
Nobody is safe in this world. Not from abuse, not from stuff entering our minds through our eyes and ears. Read the book, don't read the book. Whatever. It is everywhere. Not just in a book.
Christian or not, we are not safe in this world. I believe that 100%. Period.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:50 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 3:06 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:11 am
"The aristocratic women of Jerusalem (see Is. 3) played a role in the ethical and moral collapse of Judah. They were condemned as vain, immodest, self-indulgent, and full of false pride....MORAL DECAY THAT REACHES THE WOMEN OF SOCIETY CAN GAIN A STRONG FOOTHOLD IN THE HOME, WHERE THE MOST FORMATIVE INFLUENCE ON THE YOUNGER GENERATION IS FOUND. WHEN MORAL CORRUPTION REACHES THE HOME, THE NATION IS HEADED FOR DISASTER." Lord, please revive our hearts. Give us hearts for you and for your holiness, for You are Light, and in you is no darkness at all.
Amen.
Concerned
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:18 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:28 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:46 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:01 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:27 am
Twilight for instance, there isnt any language OR SEX!!! So please, please tell me why its inaporpriate? Because you imagine a vampire, who isnt killing humans? COME ON!!!
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:42 am
I heard of the books, my SIL told me about them. She even referred to them as "mommy porn". My stomach sank...why on earth would I want that in my house? Would I be proud of myself if my 10 yo boy flipped open the book and read a chapter?
I have been married as long as AY (poster above) and yes, hubby still treats me like the lady that I act like.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:44 am
PS: The book the girl with the dragon tattoo offended me more than this book could ever dream of offending me.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:49 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:56 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:58 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 9:49 am
My marriage is not "in trouble" b/c I chose to read these books, my husband actually encouraged me to read them. I won't be cast to hell b/c I chose to read them ~ trust me, people do alot worse, ask for forgiveness and get eternal salvation, so I think I'm good.
But in the future, if you want to endorse or in your case, NOT endorse.....perhaps you should have a better understanding of what exactly your choosing and who exactly you're judging.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 10:02 am
Thank you, Dannah, for your post!
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 10:05 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 10:18 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 10:36 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 11:31 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 11:37 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 11:43 am
A legalistic person has a relationship with rules rather than a relationship with God. Legalism produces a sense of self-righteousness in the person who follows the rules."
This is what your article does. You focus on everything being a sin. Sin, sin, sin. It's not about sin. God has delivered us from sin; it's in the past. It's about RELATIONSHIP. A personal relationship with God. The harping on what to do, not to do, THE RULES. It's so detrimental. We need to face the things in life that are sinful, not hide from them. Only then, once you face and move through, shows your true relationship with God. There will always be people who become addicted to ANYTHING. Look at obesity in this world! Do you think we should hide from food?? God tells us everything in moderation!People who become addicted to anything have a hole in their heart which should be filled with their relationship with God. But that is up to each individual to deal with. I appreciate the fact that you want to warn people against things that can be harmful, but good grief are you self-righteous! The decline of Christianity isn't from non-believers, it's from people who try to fill the relationship with God with the "rules", and make it seem impossibel to attain. If you have a great relationship with God, which I do, you just have faith in everything. It's a sense of peace which can't be explained. But it's something I found myself, not in a church. I don't incessantly quote bible verses, or tell people about my sin and how grateful I am for Jesus dying on the cross, or any other buzz word people love throwing out. I don't need to! I show my faith and my beliefs from my actions. I just live my life, doing what I know is right. And gosh it feels good! And I read romance novels, watch trash tv, everything! They are all fun pasttimes. But they don't control my life. We live in a time where you post things like this article and the become viral on FB and cause a lot of people to talk...which can be a good thing, and a bad thing. When I made my opinion known, good grief did some become defensive. Why do you need to defend your ideals? You don't. People who are defensive are insecure. All the Lord talk and one started questioning me about how you get to heaven! I was raised in a way that allows me to talk about all this without getting my panties in a wad, where others have to hide behind all their talk. It's too bad...it's why we all can't have discussions on politics and religion. People are narrow-minded and can't put themselves in others' shoes. Doing so doesn't make you abandon your beliefs, it makes you stronger in your own. :)
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 11:53 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 11:55 am
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:12 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:15 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:17 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:38 pm
thanks a lot, I'm feeling encouraged now and motivated to support my fiance in this.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:52 pm
I am a male, a recovering sex addict to porn! And although my comments may cause a storm, I would like to point out that an offence is never given, it is always taken, since I am not setting out to offend, though rather to offer insight and Glorify God.
Having read through the comments made concerning the article and in reply to other comments, it saddens me that people can be so supportive of candy coated porn, regardless of whether it is in the guise of fiction or not.
Porn is porn is porn, and no matter how sweetly it is portrayed, the underlying purpose is to lead us down a path that progressively desensitises our conscience, leading to acceptance of porn as the norm within an enlightened society.
Societies acceptance of pornography as 'normal' is exactly what soft core porn set out to achieve in the 50's, and it has become harder and more perverse and easier to obtain as the decades roll on. The bottom line is that ultimately porn is degrading to woman, and is not normal sex practice, it opens up a fantasy world to men who then try to implement those fantasies, within their marriage to spice things up, and wives may be a bit put off by this but later accept this as normal! Unfortunately it does not end there, unless a decision is made to end it there.
I had been a ' Christian' for many years, and porn was my secret sin, and without going Into detail, the worship of the female form, meant that I was not worshipping God, and almost led to a breakdown of my marriage to a woman that I dearly love, which was my wake up call!
I began reading the bible seriously for the first time from cover to cover, praying, fasting and really seeking God with all my heart, and learned to Fear God (this was the turning point in my relationship with God), and began a journey to really know Him intimately, I had to make a decision, and l decided to live for God, no more cheap Grace, and playing church, and took responsibility to not allow my lusts of the flesh to rule my life.
The old testament is full of sexual sin, the Israelites became obsessed with sex god religions of the inhabitants of Canaan, and their disobedience to Gods commands concerning the total destruction of the inhabitants, in order to remove the temptation to follow the sex god religion, was not obeyed and exile and slavery was their reward.
God tells us in his word numerous times to flee sexual immorality, and that is what I have to do now, God has set me free, and healed my mind, and hence I cannot even go there ever, and neither should anyone who says that Jesus Christ is Lord, there is no such thing as worldly Christianity, you are either a follower of Christ or you are not, if you are then candy coated porn is not acceptable, in the same way that stealing is not acceptable.
God is calling his body to live a life that is holy and righteous and beautiful as we are the bride of Christ, God is perfect and we need to seek that perfection in Christ, who is our role model, the choice is ours, we cannot choose to do both! That is being double minded, and will get us nowhere with God, God wants us his body to start impacting the world, in the same way Jesus did, which leaves us with a choice!
God set before us blessings or curses, Life or Death, God made the way, reconciliation through Christ Jesus, the choice is ours!
God Bless
R
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 1:32 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 1:36 pm
adding on..I respect your opinion to feel as you do about it. In that case, it's not on your book list. But referring to others as 'sinners' for reading this or wanting to is very over the top. Let's practice toning down the the judgment shall we?
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 1:40 pm
These books won't ruin your marriage nor will these book take you to hell, And My hubby really likes the fact I am reading it......
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:01 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:04 pm
I doubt this book makes women so hot and bothered that a woman must RUN to commit SIN.
Seriously ladies grow up, pray about what God wants you to do. I bet you'll find something more pressing to attend to.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:19 pm
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater —has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
She who has ears to hear, let her hear.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:20 pm
I had requested the book because I wanted to understand the hype. But after reading this blog, I cancelled my library request. I rather be safe than sorry.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:22 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:32 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:32 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:35 pm
I was brought up in a legalistic home and taught that sex is dirty and pretty much only use to procreate. That is completely false and I praise God that my husband and I have been so happy with each other all these years and we have only had eyes for each other. This book has helped me see how wonderful a sexual relationship can be and that "getting dirty" is beautiful...when in the bonds of marriage.
My husband and I are talking about our sexual relationship like never before and having a LOT of fun with a fresh, new desire on my part to make him incredibly satisfied. I've always been his "submissive" due to being a godly wife, but I had no idea what other ideas were out there and it has been a wonderful journey for us.
On a side note, I've been reading Song of Solomon alongside the books and have enjoyed that too! I am an avid reader of the Bible and worship God with all that I am. I happily worship Him even through sex and the beauty and joy that it can bring to a marriage. We are SO happy together and this book series has helped spice things up (thank you, hubby).
My biggest complaint about the book is the harsh language that was used and I pray that it will not infiltrate my mind.
I DO NOT recommend this book for everyone. Those who think about and mull over things that they read would have problems with it. Those who think about men other than their husbands or are having problems in their marriage, should not read it. However, those who are spiritually strong, do not over-think or fantasize about characters they are reading about (I can't even picture Christian, by they way!!) and are looking for a little added spice in their marriage...then pray and read. It's been great for us...just ask my husband!!
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Thank you so much for sounding the alarm about this harmful book. You stuck your neck out and spoke truth. Sadly there will always be those, who despite the warnings, will go ahead and do their own thing, to their own detriment. Thank you for being faithful.
For Richard: Thank you so much for sharing your testimony and being transparent about how God delivered you from the snare of pornography. Amen!
Our God is awesome, and there isn't any addiction He can't free us from! May He continue to bless you and your family, for His glory!
Concerned
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 3:37 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 3:48 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 3:53 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 3:55 pm
http://livingwithpower.org/fifty-shades-of-grey/
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 3:56 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 3:57 pm
"those who are spiritually strong, do not over-think or fantasize about characters they are reading about (I can't even picture Christian, by they way!!) and are looking for a little added spice in their marriage...then pray and read. It's been great for us...just ask my husband!!!"
Be careful to define spiritual maturity according to the scriptures and not the world's faulty standards. Here's what Hebrews 5 says:
11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil."
A spiritual mature person can be identified, in part, by the fact that they are able to distinguish good from evil. They are able to do this because they have trained themselves with the scriptures and teachings on righteousness. They know the Truth so well, that a counterfeit has a terribly stench. Upon the first whiff of such a stench, they flee. I Corinthians 6:18 says, "Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin[a] a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body."
A spiritually mature person does not try to tempt themselves. They run. In fact, we are told to pray this way: "Lead us not into temptation."
I fear that your reasoning is that if you are mature, you can sin "just a little" and it won't hurt you too much. Well then, Ephesians 5:3 says, "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people." How much is too much? A hint.
There are much better ways to spice up your marriage bed that won't lead you into temptation and cause you to hint as sin.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:15 pm
And hey, Submissive Wife, you might love Song of Solomon. I'm so sorry that your early childhood made sex taboo. That is a distortion of God's great gift as much as erotica. They are just two ends of the spectrum of misuse. There are a lot of great resources out there that offer a Christian woman a healthier way to enhance sexual intimacy with her husband. Being brought up in a rigid family can cause a lot of sexual dysfunction. To begin with, simply getting over the unhealthy guilt or shame associated with beautiful marital sex. A Christian resource will help you to get to the root of the dysfunction through prayer and God's truth rather than just inserting unhealthy scenes into your head. Try exploring some Christian books on the subject and go much deeper than fiction can take you in exploring God's wonderful gift.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:25 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:37 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:38 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:42 pm
There are also different levels of BDSM. If you've ever been spanked by a partner (or done the spanking), that's BDSM. It's also getting on top and dominating someone or being the submissive one on the bottom.
Everyone has different preferences. You may prefer blondes over brunettes. You may like men with beards instead of clean-shaved faces.
We're all individuals; please don't try to force your beliefs on us!
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:47 pm
Matthew 7:1-2 ESV
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Romans 3:23 ESV
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 14:10-13 ESV
Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
James 1:27 ESV
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
1 Corinthians 6:9 ESV
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
Romans 5:8 ESV
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
==
So nice of Dannah to shame 'submissive wife'. Please do not pray for me over something this trivial - please do pray for those out in the word starving or in real despair..I am confident of my choices in life when it comes to literature and otherwise. I do respect *your* choice of not finding this book to be suitable for you.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:53 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:54 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:55 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 5:00 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 5:03 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 5:07 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 5:15 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 5:17 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 5:26 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 5:38 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 5:39 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 6:01 pm
I've heard over and over, well, it doesn't cause me to sin so its fine. But as a wife in a 15+ year marriage, whose own intimate life has never been hotter (without the help of this book), I can assure you, there is no such thing as a "little" porn in my eyes. I dare say many would cry foul if men were getting hot and bothered over a little daddy porn.
For those feeling judged or condemned by this post, might I suggest you stop pointing to the author and look inward at what has you so riled up. I wonder why those who feel they are participating in frivolous, innocent entertainment come to the one site who says its wrong, to defend themselves. There are hundreds of other sites who are willing to share your viewpoints. This is one place for those of us striving for holiness, in our lives, relationships, actions, to support and encourage each other in abstaining from a cultural tsunami.
To the author. I commend you for taking a stand on such an unpopular viewpoint. I'm praying that God will protect you from the onslaught of attacks from Satan. Keep up the good fight.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 6:10 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 6:10 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 6:23 pm
And don't put words in my mouth or anyone elses. I'm here to speak openly and stand up for those (and myself) for choosing to disagree. What has me so riled up is that judgment such as this (over a fictional novel) is really what is terribly wrong with society. If we could all learn to co-exist and respect choices of another without referring to it as 'sinning' or condemning it, this would be a more peaceful place to reside. Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes; "Science flies you to the moon...Religion flies you into buildings".....
By suggesting those that oppose are 'attacks from satan' is yet another direct attack or insult for the mere fact we are voicing our opinions. I have many amazing Christian friends that work on their relationship with God without managing to insult the
choices of others so this can be done. It sure must be a challenge for some. And the reason I even found this site was because I saw it linked on facebook. After reading it, I was appalled that someone claiming to be a Christian could be so very .....obtuse.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 6:31 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 6:35 pm
Sarah, this is merely one woman's viewpoint on a book that has taken our culture by storm. It is as much her right, my right, to take a stand against a book that puts many on a slippery slope. We're called to have holiness in every aspect of our lives, and I for one, refuse to let my guard down. Its been said, "Watch your thoughts, they become words. Words become actions. And actions form character." I am guarding my mind for that very reason.
However, you are right about one thing. God alone is judge and jury. If you feel no conviction in reading these books, that's between you and God. I don't know your heart any more than you know mine, or the author's. However, what she has presented here, and quite succinctly I might add, is another viewpoint of this book. Everywhere I turn, we're being told there's no harm in reading this book. When in fact, it can be quite harmful for a lot of people. If anyone has questions or wants more information about this book, here is another opinion.
Sarah, calling us judgmental makes you no less judgmental yourself. If we choose our road to holiness on the other side of this gray area (no pun intended), how does that make us wrong? I would rather err on the side of caution. But again, that's my opinion.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 6:55 pm
You may call me a prude, (as a few have) but I have seen the deterioration in the sex lives of both the single and Married friends who have entertained these things. They do not seem satisfied to me, seems like it is never enough. Where as I quite frankly enjoy my relationship with my husband, going on 10 yrs. now.
So, I am not seeing what the appeal is... Oh yeah, selfish instant gratification. But this never leads to true SATISFACTION.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:14 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:23 pm
I completely agree with *your* choice to stay away from this book as well as Dannahs. I'm sure you know what is good for you and adult enough to make
those choices. I would not condemn you for that choice or for merely vocalizing it. However I have the right to voice that I don't think I'm launching a satanic attack for disagreeing. Am I not doing the same as you? Voicing an opinion? I'm glad you have your holy guard up...but please respect those of us that may see shades of grey (no pun intended on my end either) when it comes to what we feel is right for ourselves. I'm not challenging you to a war of morality. I'm just saying to respect the choices of others without fear mongering or name calling. If you don't trust your mind then fine...I completely trust mine as I've read an array of books..some you may think horrible and some you actually condone (not that I care) *however* my mind is unmoved..unwavered.
For those the book is harmful for..then they should stay away. There's no way I could disagree with that.
Tell them what's it's about and allow them to make that choice. But to refer to those that choose to read it as sinners, or anything else...I can never agree with that and it is casting judgment. We are obviously different types of Christians..maybe. I focus on my personal relationship with God - I feel no need to compare anyones literary choices as to driving my vehicle in front of a semi. lol..a tad extreme? Where you see caution...I see none. But my mind has always been strong and in my life nothing has swayed me to partake in anything that would be regarded as extremely 'sinful'..though I fully admit to imperfection and I sure can't say I'm without sin. That would be hypocritical for me to even suggest that. Stating that you pray for Dannah against the 'onslaught of attacks from Satan' was a low blow against those that were stating they/we disagree. In a nutshell you are referring to everyone who disagrees as Satan. Nice. And if you can't see the judgment all over when it comes to condemning the reading material, maybe..just maybe you should review all that was written again. Referring to those are judging as judgmental is not the same thing but hey at this point we can agree to disagree.
When Dannah lectures 'submissive wife' over her literary choice & helping her marriage, I would say that came across as judgment. But I don't see myself agreeing with you on much after the satanic remark. Again..low blow.
On another note..Redeeming Love looks like a fantastic read. I looked it up on Amazon. I don't have just one style when it comes to literature. Not by a long shot. I don't choose to live confined. I've read anything from classics to Stephen king to Anne Rice and whatever I feel hits me at the moment. And I don't think anyone or I that is choosing to read 50 shades is comparing that as an accurate depiction of God's love lol!!! I had to laugh at that mere notion! Thanks though...but I know the difference. Sometimes some people read things out of pure entertainment. I believe in being diverse..as I said before there are things some may feel repelled by or some may embrace & agree. But please let me
be clear..I know what I feel is a true depiction of God's love in *my* heart...that's all I can be responsible for or speak for. As I said prior..I think that must be really difficult for some.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:44 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:54 pm
I, too, am an avid reader of both Christian and non-Christian fiction. I love books of all genres, and actually finished The Hunger Games earlier this year. In my opinion, 50 Shades is more graphic and crosses the line I've laid out for myself. Again, just my opinion.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:13 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:36 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:37 pm
Here is one for the records.
1 Thessalonians 4:7 God has called us (believers) to live holy lives, not impure lives.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:43 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:47 pm
At the end of book three, the couple, Ana & Christian, are happy, married, and expecting their second child. Ana still participates in some of the non-typical stimulations that her husband offers. Christian is still overwhelmingly in love with her and both are committed for life. His pyschiatrist told her that Christian was dealt a bad hand when he was born and that he found a way to cope as a teenager and young adult but when she could not participate in his lifestyle, he changed. He decided that having her was a greater need.
In a literary sense, the books are page turners but not necessarily well written. I was annoyed by the language. Accept for a few "vocabulary" words of the day the reading level is at best 8th grade, which is why so many can read them so quickly. I'm thinking it's kind of like literary junk food. It tastes great but offers no nutritional value.
I am a born again believer and I was raised in a Christian home where the decisions of what "we" sought for entertainment was a given. "We" didn't partake in most popular entertainment. As a Christian adult, wife, and parent I am interested in being able to speak to those that aren't Christians about such things in an educated way. For instance, I would point out that no virgin could accomplish as many world-altering, mind-blowing "experiences" so often, back-to-back and with such intensity. And that while most men are insatiable with the women that they truly love, this guy's abilities reminded me of fictional characters that can "leap tall buildings in a single bound" and shoot spider webs out of his wrists. Seriously, I laughed out loud as I lost count of their encounters. Totally unrealistic.
But I also saw Christian as a bigger-than-life version of some men who are controlling, worriers, and full of jealousy. Some points that were made about Christian have made me want to cut my husband a little more slack. And I too have to purposely remember to TELL my husband what I'm thinking and feeling and not expect him to know magically.
Romance books usually have this sort of pattern. A female that women can relate to because she is more beautiful than she gives herself credit for. A female who is strong willed but still wants "hearts and flowers." A female who is smart and a male that appreciates that. A male that is strong but has some deep need that only she can fill. The male is usually rich or offers some sort of happiness that allows her to escape harsher realities. A male that is handsome and makes other women swoon while he ignores their swooning and only has eyes for his love. The female usually has some physical imperfection, in the case her pale skin and clumsiness. But he finds her to be the most enchanting and captivating woman EVER, all the while he rejects other women that are considered physically perfect. She saves him. He adores her. It's a formula. It sells.
If I were to meet this couple (first I might ask for some tips) then I would pray and look for an opportunity to offer the rest of The Complete Abundance that one can not fill for the other. I would befriend them and rejoice with them over the victories they have already seen God do by bringing them together and over his abusive past. I would love on these two people and pray that they saw something more in me and that I could invite them to Christ at right time.
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."
The question isn't will you or won't you read these. The question is how does God want to use this discussion about these books in your life and the lives of those around you in order to bring glory to Him and to ADD to His kingdom.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 8:59 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 9:24 pm
I'm grateful for your transparency and the gentle way in which your presented your opinion.
I can only guess that your marriage bed, if you are married, is loving in all ways and at all times, and that there are never bruises, blood, or injury of any kind in any way. And that you are both equally interested in what I’d prefer to call some aggressive play. The tone of your message tells me that this is so. If you have moments of playfulness …who am I to judge?
But be careful what you call it! Please, be careful what you call it.
BDSM stands for Bondage. Dominance. Sadism. Masochism.
Sadism? Masochism? In psychiatry, the terms sadism and masochism describe a personality type characterized by the actor or actrix deriving pleasure and gratification from inflicting physical pain and humiliation. The terms specifically refer to one who either enjoys giving pain (sadist), or one who enjoys receiving pain (masochist). These are words that are direct counterfeits of God’s attributes.
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 9:32 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 10:06 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 11:57 pm
on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 11:58 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:07 am
Okay, maybe I missed it, but someone explain to me the damage done?
Also, she lied about what biopychologists say. The first part is human, bonobos and dolphins [to name a few species that engage in recreational sex] are hard wired for the fact. What's more sexual-gratification, self or other, stimulates the brain [especially in women], which is a positive, particularly in preventing brain degenerating conditions.
To top all that her bible endorses genocide, slavery, mutilation [genital and other], infanticide, executing disobedient children, executing gays [for no real crime, no less], the oppression of women [worse than even Communist China] and a police state style of thought crime that would've made Hitler proud.
To take your Bronze Age book of horror and put it where it belongs: in the fiction section.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:26 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:30 am
I get this is not a novel you would read....I understand but let's be careful about asking others about their morals because of of what 'they' choose....that is flat out wrong! And in all honesty, it's no ones business if a person watches porn either. I don't b/c it's not anything I care about but i'm not going to judge another's choices OR their marriage. Who am I do do that? Their marriage is their business...not mine. Their relationship with God and their viewpoints are also their own...not mine. I don't compare those things to adultry..Sorry....I don't see it in the same way.
Maybe you have seen porn cause destruction...I don't know. Personally I never have and I've known plenty that may have taken a peek or more at it. I don't pry into what another person is doing. If they were harming a child or committing a crime I would be the first to speak up but otherwise, if there's no harm, it is their private life - I also am not one to judge it. There is only one judge...who is not human or on the internet or otherwise. I'm sorry to hear that you went through molestation however I feel that person would have done that with or without porn as a sick individual does that. I don't blame violent shows for murders..I cast blame where it belongs...to the one who did the vile act. I just could not imagine living an overly confined life restricted
by what someone tries to dictate as right or wrong....wow.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:33 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:36 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:41 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:42 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:56 am
When I began reading the comments on this post I found myself becoming angry and upset at the tone used by both sides of this argument. I respect Dannah's right to write this blog and voice her opinions just as much as I respect the rights of the author of the "questionable" book. The lack of respect for other people's thoughts, beliefs and ideas is what seems to me to be wrong with the world. I am friends with people who have differing faiths, political parties and ethical ideas than I have. I have found something rewarding from all of these friendships without ever feeling I need to make my idea theirs.
I just hope in the future that you will take a moment to think about how you would feel if someone tried to change your beliefs. I believe it is possible to disagree respectfully and without the intent of changing the other person.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 1:04 am
With everything going on in the world right now, you thought there was a need to try to convince women of what NOT to read? Laughable and sad, but mostly just sad.
Heading over to Amazon to purchase the kindle books now. Thanks!
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 1:28 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 1:28 am
If the literature is labeled erotic fiction then we as one's who desire to not only follow Christ but to love Him and honor Him must respond to this label with true and wise discernment measuring it to scriptures like Philippians 4:8 (Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable- if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think on such things), just as we do with anything we take in.
Speaking to the idea that SoS content is like SoG made by someone comment section --Song of Solomon is such a beautiful book of the Bible, pure and graceful, filled with two lovers expressing verbally their love and appreciation for one another and the other's body. It is not explicit. It is an intensely selfless love poem, one of the most well written I have encountered. A comparison between SoS and SoG JUST on a literary and content level is unfounded and not logical. They are very different works.
In our words to each other concerning judging, I hope we has Christians first seek to reflect His humility and His gentleness above making sure our voices are heard so that when those who are not following Christ and those who need His love, see Him and not just our brokenness.
Philippians 4:5 Let your gentleness be evident to all.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 2:13 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 3:32 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 3:36 am
I read many conflicting ideas in the comment section following the blogger's opinion of Fifty Shades of Grey and the trilogy itself.
As a Christian who loves to read - I did, indeed, read the first two books quickly. I found myself fantasizing about the characters both during the reading and afterward.
For my mind, this was pornography. I have a keen imagination and was able to vividly picture what was going on between Ana and Christian.
I began to think about the book more often than I'd like to admit. Like Christian coached Ana to, I started to look up BDSM stuff online. The books began to take over a territory in my brain - as we all know we must take all thoughts captive to Christ.
Both of those habits sent a major red flag into my brain. I discussed with my God and then with my husband. For this girl, the Fifty Trilogy is not conducive to a wholly Christian life. But every person is on a different path with Christ. Rather than suppose that this book is intolerable to all, I allow every Christian woman to decide for herself whether this book is a health addition to her life.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 5:43 am
Thank you for being a voice that speaks to ungodliness and worldly passions. I cannot find the voice to argue on these things, as those who do not WANT to be convinced will not be convinced, but I will say this: Song of Solomon is a METAPHOR of the consummation of Christ and his church. The Bible must be read from beginning to end to understand this. All MARRIAGES should depict this, and that is why Song of Solomon is included in scripture. That is something that cannot be captured by 50 Shades or any other erotic claptrap. DON'T give in and read it to be credible to an audience who only wants you to join them in their sin. Grace should not give us a reason to read, do, say, or think whatever we want. It should teach us to say NO to ungodliness...
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 6:27 am
Mims----are you sure your husband isn't going into the other room to watch porn on his computer instead of "praying" as you watch tv? Serious question.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 7:16 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 7:16 am
This comment is particularly troubling to me. Sounds like someone has read a "review" of the Bible and not the actual book. As a FREE WOMAN who was taught to read at the age of 4 and went on to major in and teach English, I have an appreciation for LITERATURE. As a Christian, I have the utmost appreciation and respect for God's living word. One cannot read it cover to cover with the illumination of the Holy Spirit and gather these things. God is not pleased by oppression and killing. He may use those things, but His intent is that no man should perish (2 Peter 3:9). I am grieved, but not surprised, by the lies that non-Christians tell, but I am CRUSHED by the lies Christians believe and perpetuate. It is time to wake up.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 8:11 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 8:24 am
Mims----are you sure your husband isn't going into the other room to watch porn on his computer instead of "praying" as you watch tv? Serious question.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 8:31 am
Bengalese proverb
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 9:09 am
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 9:18 am
As for me, may the words of my heart and the meditation of my heart be please in your sight, O Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 10:39 am
Simply not true, for people like me, words are visual and it takes no great effort on my part to read a book and visualize. That is why I can't and won't read many books on the market today, because I can visualize the actions being described through the written words. So your theory doesn't hold water.
And just as Dannah said these images leave scares in my thoughts and in my heart.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 10:42 am
I'm stickin' my earlier comments though.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 10:47 am
@YFaith You offer praise for the book if it might lead to awakening the sexual appetites within marriages. Well, that could back fire. One of the things we are discovering in the field of sexuality in general is that when porn or erotica is used it generally leads to a decrease in sex with a real partner. While there might be an immediate awakening that creates more of a sexual appetite in a marriage bed, the risk is great that it will eventually lead to less sex in the marriage bed and a greater appetite for more porn and more erotica. That's simple science.
Could you share these studies that you're referencing?
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 1:11 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 1:24 pm
As a long time member of the BDSM community, I find your view of our lifestyle (what little you actually expressed of it) to be very closed minded and judgmental. Have you truly done any research into what it means to live that kind of life. Have you asked a Dom/me or submissive what it means to them? Or have you just gone with your prejudicial vanilla understandings and not looked deeper?
Before you paint our world as evil. Do some research, learn a little about, find a person's motives for living this life. You may just be surprised at what you learn... about us and about yourself.
Yes, I am leaving my full real name on this comment, you are more than welcome to look me up on Facebook if you would like.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 1:28 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 1:42 pm
That being said, I have to disagree with this post. I don't think its true that men are so easily "addicted" to porn - in fact, to be honest, I watch it more than my husband! I also think that BDSM - if done correctly and respectfully - can be a great experience between partners, so long as both are willing. And its not just the men who are dominated - either partner can assume the role. Boring sex is probably one of the fastest ways to kill a marriage, in my opinion.
And finally, if we're going to quote Bible verses, what about Song of Songs? Doesn't that qualify as erotica? (probably tame compared to 50 Shades of Grey, but had to have been pretty racy for the time!)
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 2:28 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 3:12 pm
Second? I completely respect a person's choice not to read something based on their convictions. don't judge them for that.
Third? BDSM is not a sin when expressed in love and marriage. There is nothing sinful about love in marriage as long as it is mutually consenting.
Fourth? Porn is not the number one addiction of men, CAFFEINE is. Then cigarettes and maybe alcohol. They might think about sex after that, but porn? it sells, yeah, but not like Starbucks.
I will state again, I respect this blogger's choice in not reading this piece of FICTION. That is her choice and I also respect her choice in warning others of similar belief that they wouldn't want to read it either.
Personally, I couldn't care less about the book. I used to WRITE erotic fiction. It bores me. The only thing that excites me now is that look in my wife's eyes, because I know that's real. I didn't make it up, and no one else did, either. It's truth and I love it.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Sidenote: Don't discriminate against those that willingly participate in BDSM. As far as I'm concerned, that's more respectful to women than those of you that vow to "submit unto your husbands". The day I need my husband to approve my reading material is the day pigs fly. That is asinine. Use your brains ladies- read it if you want. Don't read it if it makes YOU uncomfortable. Don't let someone else make up your mind for you. I mean, unless you were silly enough I to vow to do so before god and everybody else...
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 4:46 pm
There's enough we need to be saved from.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 5:19 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 6:44 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 6:55 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 7:36 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 8:26 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 8:34 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 8:37 pm
posted by Sarah
@ Sarah
As an ex-mormon and later, ex-evengelical [anyone who takes Jesus as their court appointed messiah should be seen as a christian, but I digress] I look at this with the science. Miracles haven't been reproduced under scientific scrutiny. Having read the bible cover-to-cover and studying many of its books, I would say that the bible is far more destructive on emotional health of women [worse than the qur'an in fact] and contained more unethical behavior by the believers than anything written in modern times. In the old testament a seemingly bipolar Yahweh flips from being an abusive father, to a gang banger to the ultimate Dr. Josef Mengele. If a god like this did exist mankind would've long ago destroyed such an entity in order to bring a better form of justice. The torah, bible and qur'an are trouble's trio that no decent human being can in good conscious use as a guide book.
As to erotic fiction I don't read or write any because it bores me to tears. If and when I put romance into my novels they're side plots and I generally keep the sex out in order to avoid detracting from the main plot Snowflake Girl uses vampirism as a metaphor of sexual assault in a similar way to how Bram Stoker did it, and with my work the attack itself was only first stage of victimization. Stages two and three were due process of law and society respectively victimizing the survivor again. Granted my standard for womanhood was set by Sigourney Weaver in the Aliens movies, so I lend toward that archetype for main female characters.
Part of the reason the very mention of Twilight offends me. That book is about how to keep an abusive boyfriend around and be attracted to the serial stalker. That the idea of a 117 year old hanging around a high school scoping girls is a monster this society already has a word for: pedophile. At least with a vampire pervert you'd be justified in sending a small ops team equipped with a set of lances and a flamethrower after the bastard.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 10:37 pm
I have literally gone through all of your comments and taken them to heart. I currently have the book "50 Shades of Gray" sitting next to me un-opened.
I am 22 years old, a christian and a full time student/ part time worker.
My boss recomended this book to me saying that the story line was really good but warned me that it did have sex scenes. I am not opposed to sexual scenes in books, I have never had sex (I am waiting until I am married) but I am perfectly fine with reading it, it does nothing for me, its all just part of the book.
But my sister sent me the link to this post as a warning for me since she has been hearing about it and wishes to stear me clear of anything that could be detromental to my mind and faith. I have schizphrenia and manic depression so she worries about me a lot.
I am so torn about reading this book and I was hoping to find a clear concise answer as to what I should do with the comments on this blog... but now I am only more confused...
I have asked God and I have gotten nothing to dicern from Him so I am worried and confused. Worried that it could hurt me mentally or that I may actually like something considered as "trash" by other women...
Do any of you have any advice for me?
I am half tempted to just flip through the book and read a paragraph here and there to see....
What should I do?
Thank you
Sincerily
Charity Case
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 10:53 pm
It doesn't matter what you think or feel: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"-Jer. 17:9
It only matters what God thinks, and you have to read Scripture to figure that out. Shall we?
"But among you there must not be even a HINT of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people...Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret."-Eph. 5:3, 11, 12
"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."-Phil. 4:8
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, NOT IN THE PASSION OF LUST like the Gentiles who do not know God... For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you." -I Thes. 4:3-5, 7-8
"“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything. “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?... Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."-I Cor. 6:12-14, 17-20
“The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.”-Gal. 5:19, 21-23
I could go on, but what’s the point? There is not a single way to defend that book if you read Scripture.
And by the way, we are to “test everything; hold fast what is good”-I Thes. 5:21
As far as all the typical “don’t judge, or you’ll be judged” arguments, you have to read the entire context of Scripture. It’s referring to being a hypocrite. A lot of people in Scripture judged, and rightly so. Jesus judged the religious the harshest. And Paul was pretty clear that we ARE to judge: “But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”-I Cor. 5:11-12
“If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.”-Matt. 18:15-17
And of course: “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, REBUKING, CORRECTING and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”-2 Tim. 3:16-17
All that being said, basing it entirely on Scripture alone, no one has any good reason to read that book.
If you can show me that the book should be read based entirely on Scripture, not your personal opinion, I’d be very interested in your response.
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 10:55 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 11:07 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 11:15 pm
I, for one, have read FSOG, and living in the Seattle area, I'm appalled at the fact that someone can publish a book that has geographical facts all wrong, plus all the "Britishisms" that a Pacific Northwest girl can spew out. Not to mention some "Twilight" plagiarism.
This book is a perfect example of the term "sex sells".
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 11:18 pm
*after the tons of scriptures she posted reminding anyone reading this book that they are sinners in a nutshell* (I think I read like 2 - yawn)
Liz retorts 'All that being said, basing it entirely on Scripture alone, no one has any good reason to read that book'
Oh Liz. Use Bible scriptures to tell others what they should or should not do much? Please use them for yourself and not as a catalyst to propel (or push) your viewpoints onto others.
I say any opinion that thinks you are damned to hell because you read this book due to the fact it's *not*
backed by scripture is also irrelevant as well as some other opinions I may have but I'll leave those out. They are not nice.
Liz, has it occurred to you that there may be some who are actually not Christians or are from another faith or *gasp* could be agnostic to which none of the scriptures you spout off mean a thing to?
Even as a Christian, I'm so much more lax than you in my viewpoints. I'm not as stringent and if that is wrong in your eyes..well....I just don't care. I won't lose sleep over how another perceives my life as Christian. That's between me & God.
Thank you for the Bible lecture but none of that even matters to me at this point and I think it hardly matters to those who feel as I do. My belief is that God knows your heart. God & Jesus realize there is much to be desired with human nature and if anyone dared to try to live up to every expectation spouted by religious fanatics I fear they may go mad. I feel humans are the hypocrites...maybe God/Jesus would prefer we not read it..I don't know. But I do know there are plenty of books you could pose that question toward. It just makes me shake my head that some can be so overly self righteous when it comes to what 'others READ'....
I'm reading it for personal pleasure..right or wrong. It's just a book really. It's not murder. It's not rape. It's not a crime of any sort nor will it make me go out and commit one so of COURSE I do not have a scripture to back it up. I never expected to nor do I care. I don't think one person who is reading it has thought there was a scripture defending it. In fact that thought is ludicrous. You'll have to settle for my very feeble (as you see it)....opinion. sorry.
I will say all of this has made for a fun day at work for me as I am questioning what everyone is reading and have asked if they feel it's Bible worthy..and if not they need to put it down and run as if I were serious. The looks I got were hysterical!
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 11:44 pm
on Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 11:48 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 12:14 am
It. I can keep Christian music on my radio, refuse to watch/read trash, and I'll be just fine.
Also, if you're looking to a book to add
The spark back to your marriage, there are cleaner, faith based books that deal with MARRIAGE,
Not premarital sexual encounters.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 2:34 am
What I wasn't prepared for was being blasted with this statement from a gentleman who is a "FB Friend": "Ok here's my rant....this whole true women "why I'm not reading 50 shades of Grey.." I really don't care... It's a freackin BOOK.... There are 1,000s of books you will never read write an article on each of those...omg... Don't read it then... Quit being so self righteous...."
It wasn't my desire to be self righteous, it was my desire to have my FB friends just to think about the content prior to reading and not just follow the popular thing. I believe if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything!
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 2:40 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 2:53 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 2:57 am
You're all talking about women as if they are little fragile flowers that need warning and protecting from the big bad world of books. Get over yourselves and stop pretending you are so much more morally superior than everyone else.
Being Judgemental, condescending and stalking library wait list are such FANTASTIC Christian traits to have.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 3:26 am
Just wanted to comment to the many who are angry at Dannah's 'radical' or 'judgmental' post, please look at it this way... What we believe impacts how we try to influence the decisions of others. For example, if you had a car that was a lemon, and a friend was looking at buying the same model, you'd probably tell them how horrible yours was and warn them to buy something else. Also, the believed severity of the consequence affects how passionate one is to influence someone's choices. Dannah believes that reading this sort of book is sinful. Just as not all laws are equal, not all sins are equal. (Someone earlier said they are...this is not really true. Yes, all sin makes us sinners and will keep us out of heaven apart from God's grace, and all sin is serious, but different sins have different consequences.) Dannah and others are concerned that this book is porn, and porn can wreck families and addict. So really, it is out of love that she is warning her fellow believers to stay away from it. If you really believe she is mistaken, there is no reason to get upset, just 'thanks for your concern, but I have reached a different conclusion.'
My grandfather died before I was born from lung cancer. I hate smoking! I believe that no one should smoke. I have never tried cigarettes, and I don't intend to (I don't need to try it to know it's bad). If someone was thinking about trying a cigarette, I would strongly warn against it...it's not good for you, you can get addicted, and it can kill you. Does it kill everyone who smokes? I guess not. But I think the world would be a better, healthier place if no one smoked. Does that make me judgmental?
That is kind of how I feel about porn. It is against the word of God, it can addict, it causes a lot of broken lives/relationships, and the world would be a better place without it. (No, I'm not talking about book burning. :) )
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 4:50 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 5:01 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 7:31 am
If you feel this book will harm your marriage or porn will..stay away. Very simple. I don't feel that way and I'm not doing it to spite Dannah..please LOL! I am a very strong willed person in general and make up my mind without influence. To each their own.
and PS..I think soda and chips are bad for you as well as many other foods. They cause heart attacks etc...however I don't run up to a person with a soda and express my passionate feelings LOL!
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 7:48 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 7:52 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 7:53 am
I also agree smoking is horrible for one's health and it baffles me as to why anyone does it. Can I make them stop? No. If they ask my opinion I'd gladly tell them but you'll hardly find me preaching to them.
I also feel eating too much sugar can lead to diabetes and refrain from having soda, chips or anything bad in my diet. I'm huge into nutrition and If I'm not mistaken gluttony is one of the deadly sins listed. Again I pay attention to my lifestyle..I'm hardly going to walk up to a person with a soda and preach over the obesity epidemic being tied to gluttony - If a person seeks out my advice, I'll gladly tell them. Otherwise their life is their own and I do not feel that soda will earn them a one way ticket to eternal damnation. What a nutcase I would appear to be!
As for Porn..my thoughts are that in the wrong hands it can be damaging. As can violent movies, many things. I have not seen it harm every person that has looked at it. It's their choice and I would hope they are wise enough in their own mind to feel confident in their choices and if it was a bad one? learn from it. Some things (like experiences) are meant to teach us as well. Even our bad choices have been used as tools to help us grow spiritually.
I could rattle off so many things that are not healthy for humans and lead to other issues to which I could probably find a scripture to back it up...over shopping, hoarders, debt, despair, gluttony, sloth, vanity, etc but honestly...who is the gage for these things and where do you draw the line? I feel some make that decision based on if it's passionate to 'them' which is ....hypocrisy at it's finest.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 8:21 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 8:32 am
Thanks for taking the stand Dannah! I'm tweeting it.
In Christ,
Laura
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 8:42 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 9:10 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 10:20 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 10:28 am
I can understand your reasoning for not reading them and it's perfectly fine. It's your own opinion, I don't judge you or care that you won't read them and you shouldn't judge others for reading it and enjoying them. I'm not much of a church goer and can't quote this directly from the bible but I'm also pretty sure it's a sin to judge others. What other people do in their own time shouldn't concern anyone but themselves. If there really is a God, then they have to suffer the consequences of all the sinning they did...yes I included. I'm not going to live my life completely sheltered just because there's a hunch there is a God because if there isn't, I would waste the short life I had not having fun. If there is a God and all my sinning lands me in hell...then that is my own problem. Not anyone else.
One last note. yes there is a lot of sex in this book but the plot of the book is very good. There is a reason why he likes BDSM and that's what the story is based on...not just sex. It's actually quite a sad story so I don't think people should post reviews on a book they've never even read.
This is my opinion..please respect that just like I've respected yours
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 10:41 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 10:58 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 11:43 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 11:56 am
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 12:17 pm
I've been trying to tell people why and I couldn't explain it to them so that they would understand.
Now I can share your post and help them to see why.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Please don't take what my thoughts as me saying that Dannah should not have posted this. She has the right to say anything she please, in public forum or not. I just disagree with those who are attacking others marriages or character and passing judgement specifically because they read a book. It's not your place to do so in the first place.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 12:40 pm
@Michelle, I am lax meaning I don't go around preaching to others b/c I feel in my heart that is wrong. I am responsible for myself and my own actions...not that of another. As for the Bible, I feel it's had a lot of human influence. Let's look at the Old Testament compared to the New. Do you honestly think this wasn't brushed up by the human hand as the Old Testament is pretty scary? Interesting read though :) - I feel we have the words of God mixed in with much human conjecture. JUST my opinion.
Basically with the Bible there are passages I like that bring great comfort and some I raise an eyebrow on. I have talked to my reverend on many occasions about questioning some things and he was the one who advised that humans are flawed and God expects questioning. He also told me to feel rest assured that God & Jesus still loved me in spite of that and their words were not meant to harm. Only to warn, comfort and hopefully move those toward the right direction that need it - as in the guide although they realize there will still be many that will form their own opinions. He also said it is God & Jesus who look into your soul and see the truth of it. Not that of another. He had known many that claimed to be devout Christians to the point of no fault yet not with the most sincere intentions regarding others to which saddened him. He said he has also seen the Bible used as a weapon to which really saddened him. I think he is a wise man.
If you feel this book will harm your marriage or porn will..stay away. Very simple. I don't feel that way and I'm not doing it to spite Dannah..please LOL! I am a very strong willed person in general and make up my mind without influence. To each their own.
I also agree smoking is horrible for one's health and it baffles me as to why anyone does it. Can I make them stop? No. If they ask my opinion I'd gladly tell them but you'll hardly find me preaching to them.
I also feel eating too much sugar can lead to diabetes and refrain from having soda, chips or anything bad in my diet. I'm huge into nutrition and If I'm not mistaken gluttony is one of the deadly sins listed. Again I pay attention to my lifestyle..I'm hardly going to walk up to a person with a soda and preach over the obesity epidemic being tied to gluttony - If a person seeks out my advice, I'll gladly tell them. Otherwise their life is their own and I do not feel that soda will earn them a one way ticket to eternal damnation. What a nutcase I would appear to be!
As for Porn..my thoughts are that in the wrong hands it can be damaging. As can violent movies, many things. I have not seen it harm every person that has looked at it. It's their choice and I would hope they are wise enough in their own mind to feel confident in their choices and if it was a bad one? learn from it. Some things (like experiences) are meant to teach us as well. Even our bad choices have been used as tools to help us grow spiritually.
I could rattle off so many things that are not healthy for humans and lead to other issues to which I could probably find a scripture to back it up...over shopping, hoarders, debt, despair, gluttony, sloth, vanity, etc but honestly...who is the gage for these things and where do you draw the line? I feel some make that decision based on if it's passionate to 'them' which is ....hypocrisy at it's finest.
@Michelle...one more thing...telling someone a car that you had that was a lemon is warning them through your experience - it's a fact the car you had was a bad investment for you.....telling them that porn will ruin their marriage is out of conjecture - you are basing that off of your 'beliefs'...yes there's a difference. Smoking is unhealthy and very much a scientific fact...feeling if no one did this and the world being healthier as a result is a fact too so no..not judgmental in 'thinking' this. Thinking less of a person for doing so is judgmental as well as when you base opinions off conjecture and attempt to propel that same mindset onto another. Anyway that's my opinion.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 1:29 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 1:35 pm
Some of you have not called this book porn. I live in Dallas and on my drive home I pass an adult video store, on their marquee this week in big letters they have, "Copies of Fifty Shades of Grey Here". Amazingly, I saw it later that evening in the checkout line of my grocery store.
I would be very, very hurt if my wife chose to read this book. As her husband, I would feel that I must not be doing something to satisfy her if she has to go somewhere else to be stimulated. We have a great marriage and a very enjoyable sex life.
I am a recovering porn addict that devastated my life from my college years until and through my 20s. Thankfully, God delivered me from that. I can attest first hand to the damage caused by pornography...written and visual. It saddens me that so many women are reading these books because, eventually, they are going to want to read more books like this. And with the success of Fifty Shades, more books like this are sure to go mainstream.
I certainly don't want my wife comparing me to anyone...alive or fiction. And I don't want her imagining anyone else, alive or fiction, when we are making love.
As in all things in this life, we need to turn to God's Word. I think the Bible is very clear about pornography and lust. My pastor brought up the old WWJD the other day, but changed it just a bit to reflect what the bracelets should have said, "What Would Jesus Have Us Do?" I think that is more than applicable with erotic fiction.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 1:58 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 2:30 pm
First of all, thank you for that!
Second, there is SO much temptation everywhere I don't think we need to add to it by introducing an outside element into our relationships.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 2:33 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 3:24 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Mt 5:28* But I say to you, That whoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
1Jo 2:16* For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
1Jo 2:17* And the world passeth away, and its lust: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 4:06 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 4:47 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 4:52 pm
As a Christian woman surely you have happened across the Song of Solomon at some point. ;P It is erotica 100% through and through.... I could quote here but Ill spare you the blushing :P How did that end up in the bible if its evil? I think the guy who slept with 1000 women knew how women get turned on :P I think we need to be wise and only condemn what the bible actually condemns.
I don't like the books because they are poorly written, the characters are weak and it needs an edit badly same scenes are repeated over and over. The reason I bellieve this book is popular is because blackberry pushed it there are 50 plus mentions of the phone in one book alone. This is just a huge commercial directed women 20-40 that make a huge percent of household purchases.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 5:03 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 5:59 pm
PRAISE JESUS!!!!
HALLELUJAH!!!
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 6:04 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 6:08 pm
It doesn't matter what you think or feel: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"-Jer. 17:9
It only matters what God thinks, and you have to read Scripture to figure that out. Shall we?
"But among you there must not be even a HINT of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people...Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret."-Eph. 5:3, 11, 12
"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."-Phil. 4:8
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, NOT IN THE PASSION OF LUST like the Gentiles who do not know God... For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you." -I Thes. 4:3-5, 7-8
"“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything. “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?... Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."-I Cor. 6:12-14, 17-20
“The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.”-Gal. 5:19, 21-23
I could go on, but what’s the point? There is not a single way to defend that book if you read Scripture.
And by the way, we are to “test everything; hold fast what is good”-I Thes. 5:21
As far as all the typical “don’t judge, or you’ll be judged” arguments, you have to read the entire context of Scripture. It’s referring to being a hypocrite. A lot of people in Scripture judged, and rightly so. Jesus judged the religious the harshest. And Paul was pretty clear that we ARE to judge: “But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”-I Cor. 5:11-12
“If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.”-Matt. 18:15-17
And of course: “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, REBUKING, CORRECTING and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”-2 Tim. 3:16-17
All that being said, basing it entirely on Scripture alone, no one has any good reason to read that book.
If you can show me that the book should be read based entirely on Scripture, not your personal opinion, I’d be very interested in your response.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 6:10 pm
Per Liz - 'Any opinion about this book that is not backed by Scripture is irrelevant' (lol..ok)
*after the tons of scriptures she posted reminding anyone reading this book that they are sinners in a nutshell* (I think I read like 2 - yawn)
Liz retorts 'All that being said, basing it entirely on Scripture alone, no one has any good reason to read that book'
Oh Liz. Use Bible scriptures to tell others what they should or should not do much? Please use them for yourself and not as a catalyst to propel (or push) your viewpoints onto others.
I say any opinion that thinks you are damned to hell because you read this book due to the fact it's *not*
backed by scripture is also irrelevant as well as some other opinions I may have but I'll leave those out. They are not nice.
Liz, has it occurred to you that there may be some who are actually not Christians or are from another faith or *gasp* could be agnostic to which none of the scriptures you spout off mean a thing to?
Even as a Christian, I'm so much more lax than you in my viewpoints. I'm not as stringent and if that is wrong in your eyes..well....I just don't care. I won't lose sleep over how another perceives my life as Christian. That's between me & God.
Thank you for the Bible lecture but none of that even matters to me at this point and I think it hardly matters to those who feel as I do. My belief is that God knows your heart. God & Jesus realize there is much to be desired with human nature and if anyone dared to try to live up to every expectation spouted by religious fanatics I fear they may go mad. I feel humans are the hypocrites...maybe God/Jesus would prefer we not read it..I don't know. But I do know there are plenty of books you could pose that question toward. It just makes me shake my head that some can be so overly self righteous when it comes to what 'others READ'....
I'm reading it for personal pleasure..right or wrong. It's just a book really. It's not murder. It's not rape. It's not a crime of any sort nor will it make me go out and commit one and of COURSE I do not have a scripture to back it up. I never expected to nor do I care. I don't think one person who is reading it has thought there was a scripture defending it. In fact that thought is ludicrous. You'll have to settle for my very feeble (as you see it)....opinion. sorry.
I will say all of this has made for a fun day at work for me as I am questioning what everyone is reading and have asked if they feel it's Bible worthy..and if not they need to put it down and run as if I were serious. The looks I got were hysterical!
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 7:12 pm
So per Liz...all of you out there that are reading this book do not have any good reason and ANY of your opinions are completely irrelevant based on conjecture from her. ;)
==
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 7:14 pm
“If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.”-Matt. 18:15-17
Liz, with this scripture are you saying that anyone reading this ....'book'.....has sinned against you? Why not just cut to the chase and go toward book burnings or stoning people?
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 7:43 pm
If you don't want to read the book then do not. I can't disagree with anyone's opinion on it as it's their own..but to shame or condemn others......that takes another type of person entirely which reminds me of that movie. A person I am proud that I am not.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 8:01 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 8:19 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 9:37 pm
It doesn't matter what you think or feel: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"-Jer. 17:9
It only matters what God thinks, and you have to read Scripture to figure that out. Shall we?
"But among you there must not be even a HINT of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people...Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret."-Eph. 5:3, 11, 12
"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."-Phil. 4:8
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, NOT IN THE PASSION OF LUST like the Gentiles who do not know God... For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you." -I Thes. 4:3-5, 7-8
"“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything. “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?... Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."-I Cor. 6:12-14, 17-20
“The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.”-Gal. 5:19, 21-23
I could go on, but what’s the point? There is not a single way to defend that book if you read Scripture.
And by the way, we are to “test everything; hold fast what is good”-I Thes. 5:21
As far as all the typical “don’t judge, or you’ll be judged” arguments, you have to read the entire context of Scripture. It’s referring to being a hypocrite. A lot of people in Scripture judged, and rightly so. Jesus judged the religious the harshest. And Paul was pretty clear that we ARE to judge: “But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”-I Cor. 5:11-12
“If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.”-Matt. 18:15-17
And of course: “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, REBUKING, CORRECTING and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”-2 Tim. 3:16-17
All that being said, basing it entirely on Scripture alone, no one has any good reason to read that book.
If you can show me that the book should be read based entirely on Scripture, not your personal opinion, I’d be very interested in your response.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 9:54 pm
I can understand if some of it is too harsh for some people..fine. I get that but don't act like you are on some self righteous journey or mission out to save others when you haven't even heard of what it's about it it's entirety. The bashing of others is what greatly disturbs me. It's so wrong on so many levels.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 9:56 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 9:57 pm
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 9:59 pm
There are a lot of things in his past that form his way of thinking and makes him the way he is.
If you want to judge people, which I think there's something in the Bible about that too, without reading the books then keep it to yourself.
on Friday, June 1, 2012 at 10:35 pm
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 12:41 am
Thanks for affirming what I'd already picked up on by reading the "back cover".
WWJD is still the first question that should be asked.
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 3:41 am
isn't that like 'advertising' this book??
God gave us free will...to make our own decisions...for ME, this warning has to be 'examined'..we can't live by 'others' say so, on what to read, because we are responsible for our own actions..
After reading the comments here, I have to read it now, to be able to make a intelligent opinion!
I didn't know very much about this book..I guess I will now..Thanks to your blog.
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 8:02 am
I've been living like Ilsa for the past 5 years--not totally by choice. I was a grad student and working full time and decided to move out of student housing. My new apartment did not include free cable. I decided not to pay for it since I was in class when all the good stuff came on and anything I wanted to watch I could find online or on DVD. Whenever i'm craving background noise, I just put on a movie or TV show I've seen many many times and don't really have to pay attention to.
Most new TVs can be connected to computers. And all the major sports leagues have websites that allow you to pay to watch games. You and your family should be fine without cable or satellite service.
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 10:21 am
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 10:45 am
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 11:22 am
I got a little bit of criticism for it. Today, your article was a nice reminder that I am not alone. Blessings...
http://adventuresintheordinary.com/2012/04/sex-sells-but-sale/
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 11:25 am
Christians are not judging non-Christians choosing to read this book. It is God's job to judge, the Holy Spirit's job to convict and my job, like Jesus', to love. Judging non-Christians by their actions is not loving. Keeping fellow Christians accountable of their actions is loving and living in community as the church was designed.
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 11:34 am
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 12:46 pm
The scripture you posted is right on! Thanks! I'd encourage anyone and everyone to read them. They may open peoples eyes to wisdom. But for those who are willfully blind and ignorant we cannot do anything for them except keep posting the same scriptures in hopes that they will stop *yawning* and arguing the same *how dare you judge me* line and begin to see TRUTH. We could also rest in our silence from now on and stop answering the fools according to their folly.
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 12:52 pm
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 1:05 pm
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 1:19 pm
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 1:31 pm
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 2:10 pm
A few comments on here state that any description of sex that creates a visual in our mind is sinful. How, then, do we explain the Song of Songs? It is very descriptive and definitely creates a visual image in our minds.
I'm certainly not comparing this book to a book in the Bible, but the fact that Song of Songs is in the Bible should tell us something about sex. It is God given, and it was meant to be pleasurable. It was meant to create a unique bond between a man and a woman. It is also, apparently, okay to read about it, because you can do that in your Bible.
For some, reading this book could spark interesting conversation between man and wife and renew interest in intimacy. If one allows the book to be a portal for any sexual experience outside of the marriage, then THAT is the sin, not the words written on the page of a book, any more than a piece of cake makes me a glutton. If I eat 10 pieces of cake, THAT's the problem, not the flour and sugar.
I will end with a specific response to the bloggers points:
#1. Anything sparking this much discourse definitely has "literary and artistic value".
#2. If you agree with this point, you must agree that one piece of cake will lead to gluttony and one glass of wine to alcoholism.
#3. This is a good point. We must watch the temptation to place unrealistic expectations on our spouse.
#4. The characters are all about "love and self-giving". If you read the book, you would know that.
If God has placed on your heart to not read this book, than you are wise to recognize that and abstain. However, it is somewhat arrogant to assume what God has placed on other people's hearts, as to what they read and for what purpose.
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 2:15 pm
I am glad to find your blog and look forward to sharing!
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 2:26 pm
If you don't want to read the book then don't but how dare you pass judgment on those who have. Yes I have read all the books (I'm not ashamed to admit I know what the books were called before they were Fifty Shades of anything. I read them when it was nothing more than online story being posted one chapter at a time...did you know that????? Look it up. The original story was called Master of the Universe & EL James went by SQ IceDragon. The original story was a Twilight fanfiction.) Just because I read the books doesn't mean I became some degenerate crack addicted whore. Nor did I run out & cheat on my husband of 13 years. It did seem to spice up our sex life though & no it hasn't made our sex life suffer in the months since I read it. I don't have some uncontrollable urge to screw anything & everything with a pulse & a penis. I have this amazing thing called SELF CONTROL & I have NO desire to have sex with anyone other than my husband. Once again, next time you decide to bash a book, please read the book you are about to bash or keep your opinions to yourself.
I won't be shocked if this doesn't make it to the comments but I have the right to my opinion just the same as you have your right to your opinion. The difference between my opinion & your opinion is this: I have actually read the books & I actually know what I'm talking about while you simply are basing your opinion on what you've HEARD or read ABOUT the books not what what you KNOW about the books.
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 4:55 pm
That simply isn't true. It's *all* about a sexual encounter (or even more than one), but it uses poetic phrases and metaphors to describe that encounter, and we don't understand a lot of them the way they would have been understood when the book was written. Furthermore, given the cultural "norm" at the time, the "Beloved" in the story would have been between the ages of 9 and 15...and the "Lover" would have been older. And it was probably an arranged marriage. Furthermore, she would have been expected to be completely submissive to him, in absolutely every way: women were property (so women being seen as "tools or toys" is hardly a *new* phenomenon). And it would have been perfectly acceptable--even encouraged--for him to have several wives, but she was expected to be sexually faithful to him and him alone. If the book was written by Solomon as it is often credited, he *did* have multiple wives as well as a harem of concubines.
An example, quoted from my Bible and then explained:
(Song of Songs, chapter 7)
(The Lover)
How beautiful are your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lillies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbim. Your nose is like the tower of Lebannon looking toward Damascus. Your head crowns you like Mount Carmel. Your hair is like royal tapestry; the king is held captive by its tresses. How beautiful you are and how pleasing, O love, with your delights! Your stature is like that of the palm, and your breasts like clusters of fruit. I said "I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit." May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine.
(The Beloved Responds)
May the wine go straight to my lover, flowing gently over lips and teeth. I belong to my lover, and his desire is for me. Come, my lover, let us go to the countryside, let us spend the night in the villages. Let us go early to the vineyards to see if the vines have budded, if their blossoms have opened, and if the pomegranates are in bloom--there I will give you my love. The mandrakes send out the fragrance, and at our door is every delicacy, both new and old, that I have stored up for you, my lover.
He is describing every aspect of her body/physical beauty, and saying he wants to "climb" her to touch her breasts and kiss her, hoping her mouth will affect him in a way that is intoxicating like fine wine! And she is responding by saying she wants to go out to the country to see if the pomegranates (considered to be an aphrodisiac) and mandrakes (also an aphrodisiac) have bloomed yet, she wants to make him intoxicated with desire for her, and she will have sex with him and implies that she will do it however he wants.
The entire book is like that, them trading compliments of each other's physical beauty and expressing their desire for a physical relationship..and chapter 8 uses metaphor to say that they had sex out in "the desert" ("his left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me" and "under the apple tree I roused you"). Actually, some of the earlier chapters, before chapter 7 that I quoted, have much more graphic descriptions of a variety of sexual activity/encounters, if you understand what the metaphors are and the poetic devices that are being used. What makes it *not* a work of erotica? The fact it uses metaphors we don't have an instant cultural understanding of? The fact it's included in the Bible? It is most assuredly a book about physical attraction and physical sexual gratification...and there is only the barest implication that they are married before they have sex. And yet, it's the standard that has been offered to me of what a "Biblical" sexual/marriage relationship should look like...I have to admit, I find that somewhat hypocritical on the part of the "Christians" who are saying things like "I'm not reading "50 Shades of Grey" because it's nothing more than dirty smut since it includes graphic descriptions of sex, promiscuity, and dominate/submissive relationship dynamics!!...now, where did I put my Bible that has "Song of Songs" marked with a sticky note?"
I wasn't going to read "50 Shades of Grey" because I don't get in to the "hot new bestseller!!!" hype...I typically find them to be poorly written rehashes of familiar plots and archetypes. (I haven't read "Hunger Games" for this exact reason.) Now? I may very well download "50 Shades" to my Kindle, just to see if it's yet another case of people only seeing the parts of something that they understand (albeit poorly and through a rather narrow lens) and issuing over-reactive statements about their own weaknesses.
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 5:20 pm
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 6:15 pm
I know your post was aimed at me and that's well and good - I'm above insults however. I don't need to stoop to that to make my points. I have a right to express my opinion and the fact that it's 'relevant' even if I don't have a scripture to back it up. To further suggest that I or others are willfully blind and ignorant as well as not seeing the 'TRUTH' is in the same manner that Liz posts. Below the belt and condemning people based on conjecture via your subjective opinions. Very classy. As I have stated before we could around all day about what is right/wrong. But at the end of the day isn't a bit ridiculous and childish to hurl insults at someone for an opinion that does not match yours? The reason I said *yawning* in response to what Liz posted is because she posted that same one 3 times with the same scripture(s). Her tactic (or yours for that matter) is not very becoming of a self proclaimed Christian.
What are you thoughts on gluttony? It's a sin and anyone who drinks soda or eats anything knowingly bad (sweets etc) is partaking in this sin. A bit harsh of a comparison maybe? It falls in line with the same extreme comparisons some others have posted. If you notice there are many Christians disagreeing with your opinion and not happy about feeling condemned by another human being for something so frivolous in nature. Their literary choices...But if that sort of thing makes you happy...*shrug* ..not much I can do about someone who 'willfully' does that. Peace :))
on Saturday, June 2, 2012 at 9:21 pm
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 12:30 am
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 12:40 am
I think you may have missed the mark here. Greatly. I was asking for your thoughts on my comparisons on things such as gluttony, sloth etc...I was curious to see if you used scripture to back up other things people do in life besides reading literature..do you acknowledge these things are bad for us? Have you ever done anything that could be scrutinized or compared to those things? Do you consider the comparisons far fetched or an amplification of sorts? Some of us on here may consider your comparisons to be of exaggeration ourselves.
I have made up my opinion on *this* subject and I won't waver and yes, I'm quite confident in my stance. So what if I do have many posts? Is there a scripture waving a finger at that as well? With the 'totality' of my posts as you say it, I have brought up many other points to which were never addressed and seemingly discarded. I guess it's ok to insinuate I am a particular type of person based off your opinions?
My passive aggressive insults? Really? Interesting. At least I never said anyone's opinion was irrelevant based off my beliefs or referred to others that don't agree with me as "willfully blind and ignorant as well as not seeing the 'TRUTH' " - You won't find me engaging with direct insults and I won't take the bait either. I consider myself above that and able to make points without having to entertain another person's ill mannered form.
I am merely defending my opinion..Your opinion directly insults people that are opposed to yours. There's a difference here...any seemingly snarky remarks on my part are in defense of standing my ground. I never directly insulted anyone for their views. In fact, in one post there was a person that suggested that they were confused as to if they should read it or not and had claimed to have had past issues with books affecting their psyche...my suggestion? First it was to not depend on the internet for such advice but based off of what she said, I told her my opinion would be no and why risk that since she also stated to have mental health issues. If I were so fixed in promoting this book, why would I say that? I am against making others feel shamed in their literary choices based of religious beliefs. But I felt in her case, based off of what she revealed, it would not be a good idea.
For the most part I have been defending against those that insulted me & others over our views. Big difference there
Jenna..big one. I am fine with the authors viewpoint if it didn't 'suggest' others that contravene with hers were blatantly partaking in a sinful act. In addition, she never read the series to be able to condemn it so harshly. If the sexual scenes seem too disturbing, I can understand a person refraining from reading it. I would even suggest that they do so. This blog is based on an individual's feelings to the subject matter that they are aware of. Other posts (like Liz's) outright condemn/belittle others for reading it because there is not a scripture to support it. According to her all opinions are entirely extraneous or just not pertinent. That behavior alone is deplorable and I'm far from preaching by opening expressing my views on such statements.
LOL .."notice the lower case 'c' for Christian you say?"....Nice. and it is 'me' you claim that litters with passive aggressive insults?...to this I say touché..(mockingly as that is absurd) - your insults are both direct and passive aggressive. They
far trump any of mine in one message alone. I will not engage you back in that though NOR will I respond to the
the completely ludicrous lower case 'c' insult. Again...classy.
I never ever once indicated I was trying to 'shut up' believers. Where do I say or suggest this in my *very* many postings? I never said anyone needed my approval either. Let's not put words in my mouth ok? This is where things get twisted.
Again...I am defending the stance that those of us that disagree have a right to do so without being insulted or condemned or deprecated by faceless people on the internet as being less than Christian or 'sinners'. That's it. It's rather simple. I think if a person feels strongly that this book is against their values they should *not* read it. But when they start stating that the opinions of others are irrelevant and suggest that they are less than a proper Christian? That's crossing the line. You have my stance completely distorted.
As for the book..oh yes the book....that is what this was about after all? Not my person faith or relationship with God was it? Or that I'm a lower case 'c' Christian? lol....I could never say if the book was/is/or will be a stumbling block for 'all' or not...that is so subjective and quite a presumptuous statement. I can say it probably is for some and to speak of the subject matter it contains is not at all wrong. From there people can make the choice for themselves. It's obviously offensive to the person who wrote this blog; (any subject matter on BDSM regardless of the story) I respect their decline on reading this as well as mentioning it does contain BDSM for others to know about. However as many others in the postings have have stated, it's a story (though graphic) about a person that was sexually abused coming to terms with learning how to enter into a loving relationship. The testimony on this blog is from a person who has not read the books based upon the graphic scenes alone...not because they read it. If this person were on a witness stand...that testimony would be less than credible.
But I digress...she has the right to feel as she does. Should she or others condemn people for making the opposite choice? Absolutely not. THAT is wrong no matter how you phrase it or try to present it.
And in the end you tell me I've conjured up condemnation claims? Have I? Why don't you review the direct insults listed
in some of the other postings as well as what you very openly posted You have proven my own points very nicely - and naturally you find it pleasurable for one last "get over yourself"....Oh so becoming of a...christian?.....lower case 'c' you said it was? I'll allow you ponder about that one as you had so graciously retorted that to me. You are not without flaws Jenna. Try to remember that. I do know that about myself so you can save yourself the jab back. :) - Again Peace and light!
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 2:24 am
Paul said, "For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret." Eph. 5:12
Jude 1:4 " Ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."
God's grace does not grant anyone a license to do or view immoral, ungodly or wicked things. Christians are command to be holy as God is holy. Those who are not Christians can not be holy even if they tried because first they must become a new creation. So the call to holiness among brothers and sisters in the Lord is never expected to be adhered to by nonChristians. Those of you who don't believe in Christ can feel free to carry on without our human condemnation...you stand condemned already by God not us. But for those who believe and call Jesus Lord you are to be holy...that means you are to set aside everything that is wicked, everything that is ungodly, everything that will cause your brother to stumble etc... It is not wrong for believers to encourage each other to do this. It is not wrong to say this book is not fit for Christian eyes and ears to view. If you want to be rebellious and do it anyway be sure of this you will reap what you sow. You probably already have. A seared conscience and a hardened heart or images you may wish you could erase from your mind...the list can go on and on. OR you could summit yourself to humility and the faith of a mature brother or sister in the Lord and say, "I'll heed the warning I've been given" and be blessed by their mature faith/wisdom.
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 2:39 am
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 2:55 am
How many of us read reviews of movies before we go to them or take our children to them? I tend to check plugged-in online before going to see a popular movie. Just because it is making money at the box office doesn't mean it is any good or that I want to spend my money on it.
Same with books. For the pop fiction, I read reviews. Good and bad. Often there are enough details of the plot that I can make an educated decision about if this is a good choice for me. (and after reading the yeas and nays here ... it is not a good choice for me - would be a trigger for past abuses)
I also believe in garbage in - garbage out. [the term 'mommy porn' nauseated me]
This is a Christian blog. The author's viewpoint should not be a surprise to anyone. The choices made need to fit inline with your worldview, morals, ethics, principles and beliefs.
Mine just happen to come from a Christian Worldview.
Thank you for writing this post and allowing many different views to be shared.
Peace of Christ to you.
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 3:36 am
"There is only one who should stimulate sexual desire in me: my husband. Since that’s God’s plan for my sexual desire, anything other than my husband creating arousal in me would be missing the mark of God’s intention. (Translation: It is sin.)"
No, it isn't sin - it's impossible. You’re attracted to men other than your husband; you can’t help it. If that’s sin, why did God in Her infinite wisdom design your physiology to react the way it does to one of Her most beautiful creatures, the adult human male? To have sexual fantasies is to be human. I don’t read ‘Self’ or ‘The New Yorker,’ but I have studied psychology. Fantasy is a normal human sexual expression, and no, the vast majority of women who read erotica aren’t going to turn in sex addicts.
God created you to be a sexual being. Accept it. Embrace it. Don’t turn it into a sin. Don’t pathologize your body’s natural functions.
And don’t tell other people what should and shouldn’t arouse them. The thing about BDSM is, it’s consensual. It’s about two people determining the boundaries of their own relationship. No one else should get a say. Yes, there are women who want to participate in this, willingly. I don’t see why any outside person should judge what individuals do inside their own relationships.
You could read this book out loud to Jesus. He’d understand. He was crucified – what’s more sadistic than that?
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 8:18 am
WOW it's just a book! LOL
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 11:07 am
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 11:30 am
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 1:09 pm
I have said in many posts (the many many many) that I completely understand why some would decline reading the book BUT please understand that others don't see it that way and don't call us names...COEXIST. Respect those people and their choices. Plain and simple. Don't refer to me as less than holy or a lower case 'c' Christian as Jenna did. Those insults were aimed directly at 'me' (as well as many more) just for feeling as I do. That is wrong (no matter how you phrase it) and if you think I should apologize, I think YOU should feel as if we 'both' should (as in Jenna too)....wouldn't that be only fair? Or do you think her name calling was warranted? wrong is wrong right? or are there rules to it?
And I will say those that partake in addressing opinions with insults are people I consider religious fanatics..again as a group of people with a certain fixed mindset that expresses it negatively. if you can address me with respect, I won't have much to say on that except that I respect your choice and you may actually provoke me to listen to your side more. I am not upset with anyone who does not share my view and never said I was....I AM upset at being referred to as the many other vile choice comments that were insinuated toward me for my thoughts. I wish people acted so passionately on War, Rape, murders, child abuse etc....It would be much better placed.
Otherwise I don't care what anyone else chooses to read. You can read erotica or the newspaper for all I care. And once again the book does contain graphic scenes *but* the story is about a person who was abused progressing toward becoming a better person. However due to some of the graphic nature I can understand some refraining from reading it or maybe because it's badly written as some have said.
And even though Liz's irritated me by suggesting everyone's opinion was irrelevant if not backed by scripture, it was not a personal attack to which I was blatantly called a 'fool' and other choice words. I guess you are condoning that by your post? I would suggest to you that you should fair and not one sided - Maybe my tone wasn't the best at times in defense but I would like to see where you saw me call any particular person a foul name. Furthermore I will say I never meant to lump every person that disagreed with me as to being a religious fanatic..allow me to clarify: those of a fixed mindset in feeling so self righteous that are insulting others because of an opposed opinion and doing so very negatively. That's my definition of a fanatic.
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 2:01 pm
And that goes to anyone...even myself. :)
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 4:30 pm
I continue to encourage everyone else here who agrees with the Dannah not to be intimidated into silence when speaking out against sin or sinful things including literary choices. Don't feel you have to be silent about your deeply held convictions or even your shallow ones. Speak out about it. Don't stoop as I did to the level of allowing personal indignation to influence your response but do speak out and be ready to give The answer for the hope that is in you. ;)
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 4:54 pm
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 5:19 pm
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 5:27 pm
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 5:33 pm
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 5:55 pm
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 6:29 pm
I think this short video illustrates how small decisions, like reading a book, can have far-reaching consequences- for good or bad.
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 7:06 pm
http://youtu.be/gWQ5dPeixdw
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 7:10 pm
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 7:35 pm
I don't know what every page of the book contains, but I've read several synopsis, scanned the Wikipedia page, and read reviews online. I'm certain that this book contains a very riveting plot - it must, considering its popularity. But I'm also certain that the elements that are present throughout the novel - extramarital sex, sexual deviance and dominance, pain, brutality - none of these are traits of a God-centered relationship.
Reading this book doesn't mean that you are, in your own life, partaking in any of these sinful behaviors, nor does it mean that you are going to want to in the future. But reading this book certainly does not glorify God, nor is it going to draw individuals closer to Him.
Matthew 6: 33 "Seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness"
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 9:05 pm
How many of us read reviews of movies before we go to them or take our children to them? I tend to check plugged-in online before going to see a popular movie. Just because it is making money at the box office doesn't mean it is any good or that I want to spend my money on it.
Same with books. For the pop fiction, I read reviews. Good and bad. Often there are enough details of the plot that I can make an educated decision about if this is a good choice for me. (and after reading the yeas and nays here ... it is not a good choice for me - would be a trigger for past abuses)
I also believe in garbage in - garbage out. [the term 'mommy porn' nauseated me]
This is a Christian blog. The author's viewpoint should not be a surprise to anyone. The choices made need to fit inline with your worldview, morals, ethics, principles and beliefs.
Mine just happen to come from a Christian Worldview.
Thank you for writing this post and allowing many different views to be shared.
Peace of Christ to you.
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 9:43 pm
on Sunday, June 3, 2012 at 10:30 pm
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 2:54 am
Basically, I agree with you to some extent on most of our side arguments... We agree about smoking. We agree about junk food, although as you alluded to, that topic is a little tricky because you do have to eat to live. You agree that porn can be dangerous, at least for some. I would argue that there is also scientific evidence that porn is harmful. For me, it is just a road I do not want to go down, as I see a host of potential negatives and it isn't worth the risk to me. I can't see how someone can look at/read that kind of stuff and not have impure thoughts, which I guess is where we disagree, and so I can't really argue with that, as you said it is between you and God.
I wanted to respond about your view of the Bible (which I think is safe to say is fairly widespread). I think it is unfortunate that so many church leaders today cast doubt in effect on the reliability of scripture. I'm sure your reverend is a kind, good man, but I believe he is mistaken in this case. I am glad you have been able to reconcile being a Christian with not accepting all of the Bible (as opposed to rejecting it entirely), but to me the trouble is how do you know which parts you can trust or not? You said basically you decide which parts seem reasonable. But that 'pick and choose' mentality basically puts your authority above God's word, since you can then dismiss parts you don't like. Plus, you can't really have any confidence then even in the parts you think are true.
My own reasoning journey went something like this.... First, I became convinced that the resurrection of Jesus is historical truth. This means that Jesus' claims about himself were true. Second, the Bible claims to be the Word of God, inspired ("God-breathed"), and the way to know God. So, I reason that if God is all-powerful and wants us to know him, wouldn't he make sure the book he gave us is accurate and preserved? In fact, it has been amazingly preserved (the dead sea scrolls found, accurately comparing to modern copies). And, those who copied the texts (bc and ad) were SO meticulous (I would have made a lousy scribe, lol)...it is not plausible to me to imagine that they made changes. Then, I discovered an organization called "answers in genesis" which is devoted to defending the reliability of the Bible from cover to cover...it has excited and strengthened my faith. Not that I understand everything (even by a long shot) but I'm understanding more and more. Even today, I was reading in the old testament, and amidst the 'judgment' of God, there was a clear example of his mercy...Rahab the prostitute was not only spared when Jericho was destroyed, but she went on to be in the lineage of Christ! I think we have to look at the whole Bible to get a complete picture of God, and there is a consistent theme throughout the entire Bible: God's redemption plan. (I don't think there are nearly as many "trouble" passages as people make it seem, but if you have one that honestly is a big hang-up, I could try to tackle it.).
I guess the other thing we disagree on is our take on evangelism! :) I am terrible at confronting anyone about anything (a little easier online, lol) and definitely prefer to mind my own business about everything. But I think we are supposed to share our faith with others (Jesus said to go and make disciples of all nations). I don't mean we go around pointing out people's sin (unless maybe they believe they are perfect enough that they don't need God. But I totally agree with @Cory's post), but rather sharing the "good news" that God loves you, Jesus died for your sins, he rose again and we can have forgiveness and eternal life. If there were an amazing free gift at a store, I would tell my friends about it! On the flip side, if my friends were in danger, I would warn them. I think it's similar. That said, I have a friend who is "not interested", and so we don't talk about it. I hope one day she'll change her mind, but I don't want to lose her friendship/trust by nagging her. I do think actions speak louder than words, and I hope people can see a difference in my life. If they know who I am and what I'm about, then they know they can come to me if/when they want to make a spiritual decision.
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 3:09 am
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 9:14 am
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 12:12 pm
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 12:37 pm
I attend church and am very involved in many activities and outreach. I think that as a church and Christians we have to evolve and meet the needs of the community, whatever they may be. We need to share God's grace and God's love and by reading this book in our homes and on our personal time we are not doing anything wrong.
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 1:24 pm
...whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Philippians 4:8
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 1:30 pm
Though religion is right for some people (It gives them hope or something of that nature.), and can keep others in line (if they feel as though someone is watching over them they won't make as many bad decisions.), you are a prime example of taking it too far.
I personally think that God and death are none of my concern, I'm no philosiper. But I don't look down on others who do believe in A God, (not just the christian one.) those who could be classified as godless heathens, or others that are anywhere in between.
I would like too see some reasons along the lines of; The writing style isn't very developed. She uses the same wording too close together. There's not much of a story line or dialogue. ect.
Reasons like: God doesn't want me to read fiction. If you read this it will mess with your marriage and create sin in your head and heart. God did not intend for us to read this. ect, are other wise invalid answers because not one of them has much more to do with anything BUT religion and God.
And I am proud to say that I will be reading Fifty Shades Of Grey thanks to this article. (:
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 2:14 pm
I 100% understand...I have 2 little ones as well and I'm just ridiculous fast at typing. I wanted to write at one time and had started all sorts of mini novels..none of which I felt a certain energy to finish b/c I wasn't completely enthralled with my own story to which I believe will come through in a novel. One has to feel passion for the story after all. But that's probably
why I type so fast though. It's second nature..I can sit for 5 minutes and rattle off and response and go. Even a long winded one lol. Most are pretty informal as a result.
This subject has definitely evoked much out of me (post wise) due to the controversy and how I feel on the subject. I have come across too aggressively at times and I'm stepping back from that. It's not right of me either. One should lead by example and not all of my posts have reflected that of me lol.
I feel we agree on some things however maybe not in how we make decisions on other things. This debate has provided
many diverse opinions. I feel your response is eloquently written to which I most enjoyed reading it. I may see things differently but I truly respect in how you worship. And I would never tell you it's wrong...how could I?
Our Church is pretty laid back as their intent is to entice people to accept God into their lives. I know they are different in that women are not expected to wear dresses or skirts....dress pants are acceptable. The Pastor injects humor into some of his stories as well as being one of the nicest of human beings I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. He would never turn anyone away from his Church...My Reverend is also a personal friend. He made it more than clear that he did not feel Erotica was for him LOL. Let me be clear in saying that. Or Porn. I think what he was meaning is that if we are to condemn some things and not others in our fellow people, it's a slippery slope. Where does one draw the line in comparison to other sins and all sin is not equal. He also believes that this only serves to drive some away from God and if his job is to embrace and pull them closer, it must be one that does this without judgment. The Reverend and Pastor both speak gently..Now if you outright asked them what they thought on Porn or Erotica, I'm more than sure they would council on 'their' views yet not in a way to condemn another for their choice. They stay away from being pushy at all because of their view that it repels people
from seeking God. I think the reasoning in this is that once they completely embrace certain things into their own life, choices may change. I feel that's pretty wise and due to that soothing nature, it attracts many. My Reverend merely wanted me to feel rest assured that he did not think of me as a bad person for any choices he felt would not be great literary choices. He said he didn't feel God would either hence adding on that only God can look into one's soul and see who they are. He said each person takes a different road and sometimes many wrong roads lead to the right one and sometimes they may not be deemed as wrong for a particular person. He did make it very clear that none of that was for him though. So you won't find him promoting this book but you also won't find him referring to any person as a sinner as a result of reading it. This book, nor others have even been mentioned during services. It's a personal thing to which he will give his advice if asked. It won't coincide with mine lol. I feel he has such a graceful way of conveying this thoughts.
I am the one that feels the Bible has had too much of a human influence to which I have a hard time discerning some things over others. It doesn't mean that I disrespect the Bible or any of the scriptures......It means that I can see many meanings to a given scripture and interpretations. Maybe not
to all of them...but a lot. I can't answer as how I know what to trust or not except for what resonates with me. I have so many scientific beliefs too and they get confused at times. I may a Christian but I've never claimed to a perfect one by far. I just try to do what I feel is right in my life.
I did very much enjoy reading of your journey but I feel I am still on mine. I can't really answer if I feel God made sure the Bible is accurate. Only God knows for sure however that only ignites more questions with me. Why was the first testament completely re-written if that were the case? I've read the old testament and some of it is downright terrifying in what it condones. My journey so far has led me to believe that there is a lot of free will when it comes to life. I have never been one to like phrases such as 'God never puts more on you than you can handle' because it leads me to wonder about suicide.
Obviously some had a bit on them that was more than they could handle. I would also have to entertain that if everything is God's plan, how are some kids murdered in horrific ways and why doesn't He intervene in addition to the many horrible and brutal ways of 3rd world countries. Do they not count? This is where i feel free will is a big part. Like grown ups watching children...God watches his. Do miracles sometimes
happen? I think so - I think there have been times God or Angels have intervened.......I think if one prays and prays
sometimes things could be heard/granted and sometimes the
answer is no. I think how a person handles what is given to them is what speaks of their character; as in never ever
allowing any circumstance to turn you into a mean or cruel being. If there is a satan, I feel that's exactly what he wants. I just have too many questions that don't have conclusive answers and some things do not make any sense to me. My Reverend by no means meant to suggest that there wasn't scripture or his opinion to help in his view. He just knows I'll still have mine to which he doesn't condemn me for (and I appreciate this) because he knows I am a good person at heart with no ill will wished upon another. With that said. I do know many that are agnostic for varies reasons..mainly because they lean toward science much more. They lead very moral lives and are some of the most giving people I've met. Since I am a flawed person who certainly does not hold the answers, I can't possibly provide that to another. I feel I am still on the path of understanding more things & always a work in process. The old testament vs New really makes me question the most. After reading parts of the old testament condoning stoning and other harsh actions, I almost felt as if it should burst into flames after reading it. The new testament is great and one to which (although I question at times, yes) I still hold to a high regard. Granted I do agree with you on each having an entire overall theme - I just feel it's obvious by the differences of the two that a human hand was involved when it came to changing some of the scriptures. I could never believe that God condoned stoning or some of the other harsh things in references to women...many things. It's obvious men were held to a higher regard due to those times. On the old testament it's said : The Old Testament consists of a large number of separate books collected together into a single volume - many authors were involved. it is said : Unlike the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible, of which Christians hold different views, the contents of the New Testament deal explicitly with 1st century Christianity, although both the Old and New Testament are regarded, together, as sacred scripture. The New Testament has therefore (in whole or in part) frequently accompanied the spread of Christianity around the world, and both reflects and serves as a source for Christian theology. Due to this, (key word 'views') I feel it's easy to say that what any person says out of faith is based off conjecture. Not each faith is the same either. It seems every Christian I've known has had different viewpoints on things. In that alone...how does one know what to trust....I guess each person must find that within themselves.
As another posting stated, I agree as well that I feel I am stronger (through my faith and many reasons) than being swayed by *any* sort of literature. I've read other things considered as erotica, things of a violent nature, classics etc....fiction is fiction in my eyes. I'm not swayed. I am pretty stubborn, strong willed and fixed with my own viewpoints. I am not an easily swayed person when it comes to about anything in life. I don't believe everyone can be this way based upon their own psyche however. Remember how some claimed Dungeons and Dragons led them to murder or how other types of literature were blamed for suicide, etc? These individuals already had something array psychologically speaking. It would not have taken much to push them. Just as how porn is the worst thing for a sex addict. Personally I don't watch porn (I've seen it but I'm far from an avid viewer) because it just makes me feel nauseated. From what I have seen of it, it does nothing for me except nauseates me. But if another with a strong psyche does, I sure won't be casting any judgement - yet reading erotica doesn't have that same effect for whatever reason. I'm more enthralled by the overall story. Porn usually doesn't have a story or if it does, it's purposely not meant for that. I don't see any erotica in stories as the same as porn for that reason and just my opinion. And remember the claims on Harry Potter alone? I just feel it's out of hand.
I highly respect your views and although we may differ I don't feel telling others about what the book has in store is wrong at all. There will be other Christians that will be glad to know and will steer clear b/c of it. The book is not for everyone and I realize that. I think the issue I had was the finger pointing and name calling etc that started to take place. It only served as a catalyst to fuel anger in many people.
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 2:29 pm
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 2:41 pm
Though religion is right for some people (It gives them hope or something of that nature.), and can keep others in line (if they feel as though someone is watching over them they won't make as many bad decisions.), you are a prime example of taking it too far.
I personally think that God and death are none of my concern, I'm no philosiper. But I don't look down on others who do believe in A God, (not just the christian one.) those who could be classified as godless heathens, or others that are anywhere in between.
I would like too see some reasons along the lines of; The writing style isn't very developed. She uses the same wording too close together. There's not much of a story line or dialogue. ect.
Reasons like: God doesn't want me to read fiction. If you read this it will mess with your marriage and create sin in your head and heart. God did not intend for us to read this. ect, are other wise invalid answers because not one of them has much more to do with anything BUT religion and God.
And I am proud to say that I will be reading Fifty Shades Of Grey thanks to this article. (:
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 2:41 pm
I'm glad to see that there are a few people on this page that don'tautomatically judge a book by its cover. (Or reviews. Ha!) It pains me to see that so many will blindly follow this article instead of thinking about the book themselves.
P.S. I also disliked the writing style of Twilight. Though the idea was intrigueing, Stephanie Myer's wording made me feel as if I was reading a script or TV pilot. Perhaps that is why it got made into a movie so quickly. (;
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 2:50 pm
This article shouldn't have been posted on Truewoman. Perhaps, next time you want to rant, try Christwire.org That's where all the crazy christians that I know go to spread their ignorant word.
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 3:06 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RB3g6mXLEKk
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 4:53 pm
No I definitely won't be judging someone's literary choices..heck 50 shades is on MY list LOL! I can understand if the graphics are too strong for the tastes of some people but I read about anything and I'm Christian...And there are times I think the Bible has contradictions due to how many in history have had a hand in it. hence the link I posted. I do like the overall moral code though I won't be telling others what I think they should do in their life. I hardly have the answers.... If someone asked for an opinion, sure I'll try to give one to the best of my ability. But I rarely openly inject unless it's something pretty extreme. I consider the book issue as benign. (Just my view again) I did get annoyed quickly at others condemning people stating they will be reading it for whatever reason as I felt strongly that was not right *but* I've toned myself down.
Twilight - SIGH! yes...terribly written. It's written in a first person narrative form which is very close to being script like....It is meant for a younger audience however in that form, one must have a very compelling and interesting character. Sadly I feel Bella fell so short of that....I found myself eye rolling at how badly she would beat up on herself as well as just deciding the vampire lifestyle was 'it' for her at 18. AND for allowing a controlling vampire to just lead her by the nose and feel as if there was no life w/out him. She mentions no life prior to meeting him..no hobbies....nothing. I think placing that much importance on a guy in general (hot sparkly vampire or not) is not a fantastic message for young impressionable girls. However if i had a daughter i would allow her to read it and we would discuss it after. Shielding is never a good idea in my view. I was shielded from much when growing up so when the reigns were cut loose after graduation, i was wild and wanted to do anything & everything I could not prior. I feel it's best to have a diverse amount of knowledge in order to form opinions, grow as a person etc.
Anyway, Bella was not developed well as a character either throughout - She pretty much remained the same. In my view that was not a strong female character. I had to read about this characters whiny thoughts for much of the book just to get to the better parts. That was awful. The idea of the story was indeed not bad at all! ...more of a foreground story would have helped New Moon out more - I feel Eclipse was the best of the 3 due to having a strong foreground story and the dynamics of all of the characters....Otherwise so many holes as well as just bad writing with words I'd actually never heard of injected here and there to which surprised me - I think Stephanie Meyer's was indeed using a thesaurus
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 5:14 pm
I hear so many people saying that twilight isn't a good example for teenages, yet there is crap like fifty shades of grey on the market. I would much rather have my kids read twilight then some erotic fiction that teaches them that its okay for a man to hurt you and command you in all things in your life.
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 5:21 pm
I was just discussing how bad I felt Twilight's writing was with Nicole. Bad writing is bad writing and it's ok to have an opinion on that - we actually agreed the story was good but we just happen to think the writing wasn't the best and I had some other complaints. Totally my own view. Even if I did say it was not a good example for teen girls I also said I would still let my own daughter read it if I had a daughter..I have all boys though.
50 shades is for adults....not teens - Although I'm ok with myself reading it, I would not be ok with any of my teens reading it...It is meant for adults. Twilight is YA. I would also much rather my 'kids' read twilight.
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 5:37 pm
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 5:39 pm
on Monday, June 4, 2012 at 10:49 pm
Here are some more "shades of truth" brought to you by your God:
Leviticus 11:7= If you eat pork chops or ham or bacon you are SINNING.
Leviticus 11:12= If you eat shrimp or crab or lobster or oysters or scallops you are SINNING.
Leviticus 19:19= Better not wear an article of clothing consisting of more than one fabric or you will be a SINNER against GOD!
Leviticus 15:19-20= When you have your period, God says you are unclean and impure. And faithful men should not allow themselves to be tainted by you nasty women or they will be SINNING.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12= If your husband is attacked by a violent thug and you try to defend him by hitting the attacker in his genitals, YOUR HANDS MUST BE CUT OFF.
Leviticus 19:16= NO GOSSIPING! Let's be honest here ladies, do you seriously avoid this at all costs?
Leviticus 20:27= Disrespectful children, drunken sons, those who break the Sabbath are only a few of the people who GOD DEMANDS BE STONED TO DEATH.
Deuteronomy 3= GOD ordered the killing of thousands of innocent MEN, WOMEN, and CHILDREN. (This is only one of multiple examples of God behaving so cruelly and mercilessly).
Hosea 13= One of my personal favorites, God states that precious little BABIES MUST BE SLAMMED against rocks until dead and PREGNANT WOMEN MUST BE RIPPED OPEN open with swords.
You may be tempted to give the "Well that is the Old Testament and Jesus died for our sins and cancels out everything else" retort. But not so fast! Jesus clearly insists that the Old Testament must be obeyed. (Matthew 5:18-19). Also, how many of you posters are divorced or have had more than one husband? Guess what, you are adulterers according to JESUS and guess what else! Adultery is punishable by DEATH. But times have changed, and we all like to bend the rules and interpret things so that our lifestyles are not considered wicked in the eyes of God. But again, there is a verse in the Bible about that kind of self-righteousness and hypocrisy as well (2 Peter 1:20-21).
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 1:18 am
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 6:06 am
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 8:59 am
Expand your minds and open your hearts to those who are different than you.
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 10:19 am
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 10:57 am
There are so many books, television shows and movies that are "PG" that depict immoral and sinful behavior. Please, name one that you think exhibits perfect Christian qualities. And, let's leave the Bible out on this one. I'm sure your children aren't sitting around reading a bible in their spare time.
I think I may re-read these books after reading this blog. They were that good and, frankly, the author doesn't deserve this attacking criticism. Read it. Then judge. Don't judge based on judgements.
Laters, baby!
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 1:39 pm
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 1:57 pm
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 3:40 pm
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 3:51 pm
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 4:06 pm
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 4:06 pm
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 6:04 pm
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 8:33 pm
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 10:13 pm
"I’ve been studying what God says about sexuality for fifteen years. According to Him, there is only one who should stimulate sexual desire in me: my husband."
That's great... God actually said that? He... (and God is a he?) ...He actually SPOKE and made this clear?
Someone needs a proper religious history lesson.
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 10:14 pm
I for one HATE erotic literature because as you say it lacks a storyline, artist expression and influence. However, I broke and read this book and have to say that I quite enjoyed what this girl was going through behind the story. This book was not about sex. It was about a young girl making choices/finding herself and struggling with her own emotions and feelings, while also having a strong desire to be with this man.
You know the saying never judge a book by its cover. Well in this case it's literal.
on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 11:08 pm
http://seasonswithmysavior.blogspot.com/2012/05/black-and-white-or-endless-shades-of.html
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 12:07 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 12:24 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 12:30 am
Honestly, this made me chuckle. How you have clearly only further supported what I said. You are blind to your own hypocrisy. You are blind because being blind makes your life easier. Your life is easier not only because you are able to blend into and be accepted by Western society (the majority of which is Christian) due to your common lack of obedience to your God but also by your public profession of faith in said God.
Allow me to demonstrate. How do you feel about Islam and Muslims in the Middle East Sarah? What is your opinion on the stoning of women? It is a murderous and extreme act, is it not? But Muslims who stone women to death do so because the God of Abraham, who Christians also worship, commands it. So if you find the stoning of Islamic women appalling, are you not also refusing to "acknowledge the value of the truths in the Bible" and making up "your own rules as to conduct and behavior"? But please, do forgive me if my assumption is inaccurate and you in fact support the stoning of those wicked disobedient women.
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 1:21 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 6:02 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 8:49 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 10:00 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 10:13 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 10:30 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 11:03 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 11:04 am
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 1:09 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 1:13 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 1:34 pm
I could see where Kelsey was coming from & felt she had valid points in response to other postings. This really is not a venue for debating religious viewpoints or insulting. I already got into that sort of deal well above but I think we all made peace in how our thoughts are different and decided it was best to refrain from any sort of negative commentary toward another merely no their view of a 'book'. Just agree to disagree or at least post without words that suggest what the other is doing is wrong. There are no Christians better than the other here over a book...that actually makes me laugh! No one sees into another persons life or knows anything of them based upon a book. I even realized that I was too strongly worded in many of my posts in defense and decided I would work toward getting my thoughts across in a different manner as a result. When you stated ::
"I dare say since you do not acknowledge the value of the truths in the Bible, you have made up your own rules as to conduct and behavior. God in His grace allows you to do that, but your life and your eternity will be impacted by the consequences. We pray for you and trust that somewhere, somehow, sometime in your life you will experience God’s love and goodness"
==
I have to admit that response annoyed me as well b/c it suggested you were trying to 'educate' her on her interpretations. No one here can do that or conclude to know enough about a person (based on postings) to say they made up their own rules, etc when it comes to the Bible then further state her life will be impacted by it and you will pray for her. Those are the types of responses firing some up. It comes across as very obtuse, condemning and arrogant. Personally I like this scripture :
Proverbs 15:1 (NIV) A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 1:51 pm
That is the sort of thing making people angry. No one likes their Christianity called into question over something as silly as this and no one on this board can do that anyway. When you say :: (as if to mock)
Well, I'm a christian but I don't believe in god or the bible but you can't judge me for that!". Are you kidding? Ur all so dumb.
==
That just solidifies my point to the core b/c it completely twisted what others said to fit your own agenda. I don't think anyone stated they don't believe in God or the Bible..just debated on their interpretations and having questions due to the old testament/ new testament. I won't get into that as debating viewpoints in Religion is just opening a can of worms - same with politics. Calling those people dumb and insulting them doesn't get your point across very graciously at all. It fact, it only turns things around to make you look as if what you suggested what others are.
==
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 2:01 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 2:40 pm
It seems like what a lot of christians forget is that they have free will. the devil will not make you do anything, it is YOUR decision. If you decide to cheat on your husband after reading some sub-par trashy erotic fiction, maybe you should be questioning your relationship with your spouse, and not whether the devil somehow re-wired your brain.
Also, I am not sure why Christians are so uptight about sex. Having grown up as a southern baptist I have never understood the taboo of exploring your sexuality. It's sad because the religion almost makes sex out to be an embarrassing and unnatural thing. But for the record, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with WILLINGLY participating in BDSM (or whatever other sexual fetish you have) with your partner. If that is what turns you two on, if that is what you like, then by all means. The bible doesn't say how you should have sex, last time I checked anyway. Maybe with a little experimentation, things wouldn't be so uptight around here :p
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 3:02 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 4:09 pm
You are doing exactly what you accuse them of doing! YOU are judging! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!
Missy is on to something here! "You're judging me!" "No I'm not! You're judging ME!"
It IS getting funny! Super funny!
@Sarah,
I would wager that Missy doesn't give a rip about your god or your opinions. "...as if to mock" are you in any doubt? She is clearly mocking you guys. Stop giving her reason to mock if you don't like it.
Do not judge so that you will not be judged. Get it?
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 4:18 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 4:23 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 4:26 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 4:38 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 4:52 pm
Proverbs 15:1 (NIV) A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 5:14 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 5:16 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 5:17 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 5:29 pm
Actually, we are already praying for you!! You are truly lost. It is evident in your post. As far as "the blind leading the blind"......I would much rather be attempting to see....than to be in total darkness for eternity! Open your eyes and your heart. God loves you! You are deserving! XOXO
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 5:40 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 6:00 pm
"when you christians are so tired of being hypocritical..." You are doing exactly the same thing to Missy! Hahahahaha! She's lost? Really? Didn't you have to judge her to come to that conclusion? You're praying for her? Is she in need of your holy prayers? lol! Think you are superior do you? She's lost but you aren't? lol! What made you found and her lost?
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 6:08 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 7:25 pm
I DO care when it comes to people insulting others - I don't care about their views on the the book but to insult another in regards to that is downright nasty behavior to which I will vocalize...So? Why do YOU care? and I think one is more than allowed to post as much as I do....there are not laws or 'scriptures' (if that is what you need) that says you will have a one way ticket to hell for expressing your thoughts 'too' much. I prefer to do it nicely even if they are in excess. ;)
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 7:42 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 7:44 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 7:48 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 8:30 pm
That's you people's thing. Are you the same person since you agree with each other? As for Becky, I don't know her from Eve either...nor do I care a flip about her whether she agrees with me or not. That's the difference between us, Sarah. You only claim not to care...I truly demonstrate it. This sure makes for some cheap entertainment. I'm so laughing at you.
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 8:38 pm
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 8:41 pm
Is this top rated fiction? Probably not but it disturbs me that there are people who have never read the book who are so fast to give a run down of the synopsis and tell what the book is about without even having read it. Have I read it? No, but you won't find me telling anyone that they shouldn't read it or that they are damned and a horrible christian for reading it.
Narrow minded christians do nothing for the rest of us.
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 9:35 pm
Gosh! I feel so frustrated after reading a lot of these comments. Why doesn't YFaith write her own article and not co-opt this one? Except that there are enough pro-50 shades of Grey articles out there, not to mention it being plugged by Dr. Oz.
Why are the pro book people so easily offended? They take this article as an attack on them, their marriages, and an evil judgment against them. That shows a lack of reading comprehension, if nothing else. The author was expounding upon her reasons for not reading this book. I fully agree with those reasons and was happy to see my opinions reflected eloquently upon the page.
I did not see any judgment against other people, this was about her own decision. It gets my ire up when people say "stop judging". Next time a hitchhiker sticks his thumb up at me, I guess I'd better let him in my car, lest I judge him as dangerous.
The written word is very powerful. I read a few books a week! I probably read too much, but at least it's fun and not explicit literature. I used to read a lot of Stephen King books. His genre is not erotica, but quite a few of his books have sex in them, and those things have stuck with me to this day, despite having stopped reading them when I was about 12 or 13 years old. I am now 31! I don't like those images that have stayed with me, and they can come into my mind at the most inconvenient times!
After reading about fifty comments, I am done! There were some great comments, but the ones who rabidly defend this book, I don't want to read those anymore. For the rest of us, know that no matter what you say, you just can't get through to some people. You can make the most logical, well written case with scripture to back it up, and they will still denounce your work and opinions based upon some flippant reason they have.
Come on, people! I hate to say it, but are you rationalizing your choice to read this book? That's fine if you want to read it, but hey, don't JUDGE me or the author of this article for not reading it!
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 10:00 pm
wow really?
you said::
That's the difference between us, Sarah. You only claim not to care...I truly demonstrate it. This sure makes for some cheap entertainment. I'm so laughing at you.
==
Since we are both posting....I'm wondering how me 'claiming' it and you 'demonstrating' it differs as this is nothing more than a word exchange. Now THAT is funny.
It's hardly just Rachel that agrees or me with her. There are many others. I am thinking you are about 16 or 17 and can't engage with that kind of immaturity any longer.
anyway moving on..
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 10:51 pm
The only thing I have gotten upset with was the past jabs at my faith etc because of of my literary choice. I'm not offended by the comments of those that feel it's not for them. Only the ones that insult others by doing so. I don't feel the article itself is any sort of an attack however it's strongly worded so I would expect strongly worded responses that oppose. In addition the author did jump on to try to council a person (who posed) that said they enjoyed the book and felt it spiced their marriage up. That is not for everyone but don't tell them you will pray for them and you feel sorry for them etc....That just pours gasoline on a fire. It comes across as condemning that person for their choice which I can't agree with in a million years. I saw plenty of responses to those that were reading it that came across condescending, etc. If the article helps those offended by erotica to know what is 'in' the book then that is great. Those should steer clear and be warned. But it *is* more than that & some are not put off by erotica & want to voice this...they have just as much as a right without being insulted for doing so or having someone suggest they are not living life as they should. In 50 shades there is a story about the transformation of a person that came from abuse learning to love in a better and healthy way. It is nothing more than an interesting read for most. I never disagreed with the author warning others that would be offended by what is in it. It was the onslaught of insults toward those reading & stating they were enjoying it that got me going. Who cares about that either? Those that oppose this book are giving this book way too much power and great advertisement.
Things like this statement:
The written word is very powerful. I read a few books a week! I probably read too much,
but at least it's fun and not explicit literature.
==
Great! and that works for you. I still read Stephen King (fantastic writer! It's not just about horror or awful things with him either, he also wrote The shawshank redemption which is a top favorite of mine) - basically I read anything I may find of interest. Some things are explicit & I do not censor myself - this is my choice. I can read these things and nothing sticks with me in an uncomfortable way. In fact none of the images of anything I've read in the past have ever came back to haunt or bother me. If it it did, I'd probably censor but that has not happened to me. I am able to take it for what it is and move on. I do realize it's not for everyone but what is considered 'fun' is rather relative. Fun for you is Stephen King for me. If I had to censor or PG all that I read, I would literally not want to read anymore as I would find it boring. The written
word does not affect all of us in the same manner as each person is different. That would be like stating we are all the same when it comes to choosing clothes, how we live, how we worship, what jobs we have, literary choices, education, what we eat, etc. If those images come into your mind or others and are disturbing, I definitely agree to stay away so I don't think that is trying to get anyone to read the book *nor* do I think others are.
I feel many that enjoyed the book got defensive after some name calling and various other word exchanges that came across (obviously) as jabs at their faith, etc. That would offend anyone. I'm not sure what you mean about 'getting through to who' either...that's the sort of talk that repels the ones that make their own choices for themselves. Their minds are just stronger than that and find it highly unnecessary for anyone to suggest getting through to them.
on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 at 11:07 pm
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 3:47 am
Thank you for your post! I found you through Little Birdie Blessings. I just finished a book written by a friend of mine of many years. It is her first book! I was excited to hear it was out! I finished the book last night & e-mailed her my opinion last night. We went to Bible College together & she was married to a minister; now divorced. I can see the other side with that relationship as I've know his family for many years also, long before I ever met her. Anyway, her publisher ISN'T one that does the erotic type stuff. But, when I read her book, it left me WARM at times! All that I could think was, "Why did you think it necessary to take it to the EDGE?" She had remarried--her new husband ISN'T a Christian & is into porn, which she DOESN'T like! My thought? What's the difference in his porn & what she wrote? To me, her book was like "foreplay!" "Soft porn, Hard porn," it's all the same to God! At the beginning of the book, she thanked her husband & boys for their support! AND GOD!!!!!! It is AMAZING that a book could show you the crevices of ones heart! I wouldn't let my 17 year old daughter read her book! And I'd be embarrassed if I wrote a book like that & my child read it! Say a prayer for her? I haven't heard back from her since my e-mail last night! I prayed over my e-mail last night & it's in Gods' Hands! Thank you for your post! :)
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 7:35 am
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 9:23 am
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 9:41 am
Fictional books are *not* real life so I have the mindset of separating that. As I said before, what is healthy or fun for one person will not be for another. I'm actually not embarrassed about anything I read - erotica, Stephen King, classics, whatever it may be...And the scriptures are getting old since so many contradict others
Do know I respect anyone else's choice of finding it not to be for them
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 11:39 am
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 12:12 pm
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 5:50 pm
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 5:51 pm
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Thank you for writing this. Thank you to those of you who have taken the time to share your thoughts.
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 10:57 pm
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 11:11 pm
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 11:39 pm
Thant is all good day!
on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 11:49 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 12:58 am
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 7:53 am
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
I know that Philippians 4:8 says:
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
But the next verse says:
9Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
That second verse, read remembering that Jesus was angrier with the Pharisees than anyone else, would seem to suggest that whatever is true, honest, just, pure, lovely and of good report, is so primarily in attitude and secondarily in action (though the two are rarely separate).
A warning about "50 Shades" is no doubt very helpful and maybe necessary, but for God's sake, pair it with a little humility and generosity of spirit.
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 10:46 am
In sumation shame on you for making your seventy year old trusted friend feel bad about her interest in this book. I think women are capable of making moral decisions without being made to feel ashamed. IT IS JUST A BOOK!
The world for a Christian women is no longer black and white. In order to stay plugged into the world and make a change it is important to embrace the world's Fifty Shades of Grey.
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 12:25 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 12:35 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 2:10 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 3:26 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Although I dont think we we should eliminate ALL fiction I do think we should limit our reading those things that are edifiying our minds. This book obviously falls outside of those guidelines.
Struggling with porn weather it's on tv, Internet or print isn't just a "male" problem, or even a "single" person problem. this topic and others like it should be discussed in these types of circles more often. Far too often no one says anything which some people take as a stamp of approval...which (in my humble opinion) explains why some Christain women participate in reading these types of books or allow their husbands to look at porn. Not saying anything because you don't want to say the wrong thing many times is more damaging, especially in situations like these.
Dannah, thank you for starting the conversation...at very least it has caused us to pause and think about what we are reading. Also, can you post the link to the article you commented on about the effects of pornography and self pleasure on the brain. I would love to read up on that a little more.
Thank you
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 5:59 pm
I don't think "mommy porn" is good by any means, but neither is "mommy negatively-blog-commenting".
Maybe we should all work full-time, and not read mommy porn or sit at home and blog or comment on blogs...
The Lord calls us to work and provide for our family. Did he really call you to get involved in this? Or are these your feelings???
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 6:16 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 6:22 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 6:50 pm
Matthew 12:37 "For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 7:12 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 7:59 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 8:09 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 9:21 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 10:38 pm
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Your personal journey with Christ is just that, personal. To assume the choices of others is causing them some harm or praying for them for their choice is being judgemental.
Walk your walk, let others walk theirs. If you think it will bring about your demise, don't read it. I haven't read the books and don't feel the need to. I've never been into the romance genre. Will my reads of military units killing terrorists or science fiction bring about my moral demise by putting images of death or unBiblical images in my head? I suppose if I were an unstable person it could. It's important to know the line between truth and fiction.
Things only hold as much importance as you give them. It's just a book.
on Friday, June 8, 2012 at 11:53 pm
on Saturday, June 9, 2012 at 10:46 am
on Saturday, June 9, 2012 at 1:36 pm
on Saturday, June 9, 2012 at 9:39 pm
Thanks for the verse, kev! So fitting! Thanks for the advice and encouragement, Dannah.
on Saturday, June 9, 2012 at 11:52 pm
on Sunday, June 10, 2012 at 7:36 pm
on Sunday, June 10, 2012 at 9:38 pm
on Sunday, June 10, 2012 at 10:15 pm
Matthew 19:26 "Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Jeremiah 32:17 "Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you."
For those who seek to live a holy life there is no such thing as "living within an impossible means". For those who have chosen to trust God and the power Jesus gave them to be overcomers of evil, keep trusting, speaking, encouraging, promoting peace and love...all that seems impossible! Because you have been given the Spirit of God to overcome. It isn't impossible when Jesus is involved. :)
on Monday, June 11, 2012 at 12:10 am
I cry out with Jeremiah in chapter 8 verses 18-22…
“My sorrow is beyond healing, My heart is faint within me!Behold, listen! The cry of the daughter of my people from a distant land: "Is the LORD not in Zion? Is her King not within her?" "Why have they provoked Me with their graven images, with foreign idols?" "Harvest is past, summer is ended, And we are not saved." For the brokenness of the daughter of my people I am broken; I mourn, dismay has taken hold of me. Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why then has not the health of the daughter of my people been restored?”
on Monday, June 11, 2012 at 9:03 am
up to the impossible - that is because of the tons of contradictions in the Bible, (including Old Testament vs new) the questions of what is impure, what is not but more importantly? The scrutiny of human beings onto other human beings that claim they live perfect holy lives & 'they' have the answers to which is laughable at best. No human can judge me out of what they perceive. I have only one judge the last I checked. That being is not human.
It is about what you do. You can't control every 'thought'..how completely obtuse to suggest such a thing. I can bet at any point in time about every person has had a thought that didn't bode well with the 7 deadly sins whether it was gluttony, pride, sloth, etc. And I'm not talking extreme. A soda or a candy bar could be considered giving into gluttony by some people - so is that impure? What about if I skip laundry today? Did I give into sloth? I'm wearing makeup. uh oh...Pride? I was angry earlier due to a conflict of interests with another person...would that be that wrath? I sure did like a boat a friend of mine and wished for a moment I had one as well - oops..was that envy? At Christmas, sometimes we all get or give well above what we should and do not give enough to charities - would that be greed? Some may condemn you to any one of those based upon what they feel coincides with that particular sin and feel 'sorry' for you as they feel you are living less than a holy life. How does it feel to be under such scrutiny?
You see..with humans it's all subjective and out of conjecture at times - you should DO the best you can. BE caring. BE Kind. BE generous with your words or time or any means you may have. BE gracious toward others. BE sympathetic even when you can't be completely empathetic to another persons plight. BE a good person. If you want to know how Jesus is reflected through us, it's when we as human beings exercise compassion & kindness toward our fellow mankind through our actions. THAT is what he taught first and foremost. I hardly feel Jesus would feel condemning over a literary selection to which is subjective would be putting any of those actions into place. Sure, warn other Christians of why you would choose to stay away yet understand that many may not see it as you do nor perceive themselves as unholy as a result. Jesus is forgiving and He taught by **not** sounding self righteous. Let's not forget the company Jesus did keep and how he went about spreading the word of God. It was the self righteous (HUMANS) who felt Jesus was not leading as God would see fit and thus had him nailed to a cross for what they saw as betrayal - And still....Jesus forgave us before God would destroy us all..
I sure am glad in this day and time, no one can nail another to a cross although the negative words toward others can seem that way figuratively speaking.
Read this ::
The Pharisees charged that Jesus was "a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners" (Luke 7:34). Even though Jesus belonged to the middle class, he reached out to people of the lower class. On one occasion Jesus said to some religious leaders in Jerusalem, "The tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you" (Matthew 21:31).
It's not hard to see why the Pharisees and others were upset that Jesus had table fellowship with people who were morally questionable. These individuals were profiting by disobeying the command of God and betraying their own people. They were what the Old Testament calls the wicked, unworthy to be part of the people of God.
Now, if Jesus had fellowship with tax collectors and sinners in order to preach to them, the Pharisees would not have fussed. After all, who would have objected that tax collectors and sinners were forsaking their sinful lifestyle, making restitution, and seeking a life of righteousness? The Pharisees believed that God offered forgiveness when sinners repented. They could even rejoice that a wretched sinner saw the light and was converted from a life of debauchery.
But what infuriated the Pharisees was that Jesus was not explicitly or directly asking tax collectors and sinners to do any of this. Some of them no doubt did repent, such as Levi (Luke 5:28). But Jesus seems to have accepted them as they were and was freely having dinner with them without requiring that they first clean up their lives.
on Monday, June 11, 2012 at 1:54 pm
I believe our foundations are different at the core and that may be from where the judgement you may be perceiving is coming. While I agree that there is an impossibility in being holy I believe the bible completely in what it says in the verses above in my last post. That puts an end to any argument within me simply because I believe. But you have said that you believe there are contradictions in the bible and that, I believe, is what has hindered your understanding. I have taken in faith the words I believe are God's Words. You haven't come to that point yet. If we do not agree on that basis...there will not be agreement in most things, especially in matters of holiness. I know you do not like to have others judge you or condemn you or imply that you need prayer. But the simple truth is...you do need prayer. You need understanding. You need wisdom. But again, these statements are not accusatory. We are all in need of those things. I wish I could find a way to communicate with you so that you would not take offense over my words and so that the hostility you feel toward those of us who are bold in our faith in God's word would be appeased.
My desire in this conversation is to be patient and loving and forthright without compromising my faith or misrepresenting God. I know you feel no one has a right to judge you. But if you are indeed a believer, then you are subject to the judgement of the rest of the body of Christ. That may not feel very comfortable but it is the way it is. Your words and actions are to be judged according to God's word...the truth. Your representation of your thoughts and feelings that you have shared here on this blog leave me and others to believe that your understanding is not correct. That is the result of your foundation being wrong. When you have your foundation straight the rest of the building of your faith will be right...and unshakeable. I am praying this will happen for you. Not because I am better and have "arrived" in my own worth and strength but because I have seen that God's ways are so much higher than our own. I am thankful I can rest in HIS words rather than my own arguments.
There is a standard of holiness God says we are to choose (after we've believed). That standard includes avoiding things like this book. I say that humbly and with much thanksgiving for the power to resist things like this in the Name of Jesus! This book is not a Godly book. I will never encourage someone to read such an unholy thing. I will never say it is a Godly choice as a believer to do so. From what I've seen in this blog, those who have spoken out against it's reading are adhering to a Godly standard of holiness that is only accomplished by faith in God's word and the Spirit of God within us teaching us to say, "no" to unGodliness.
on Monday, June 11, 2012 at 6:48 pm
Well I guess we agree on some things. I don't feel you are teachable either - In addition I feel your arguments are equally as flawed. So we have that.
I didn't really have any questions..I was outlining my point of view to which I stick with. The Bible has a lot of contradictions...you should check this out : (it's rather funny to boot)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
It's quite presumptuous to state I haven't come to any sort of point or conclusion in my beliefs because the conversation is not questioning my 'beliefs'..that is rock solid & the book is the topic. But ....sigh... I would expect no less of a comment at this point. It's all some are capable of rather than actually addressing some of the very valid points I made on subjective condemnation. Key word..subjective. Therefore any judgment by other 'humans' is null and void to me. (Especially on the internet no less lol!)
Besides..Who would make you the authority of that? Has God (with reasons unbeknownst) marked you as the next coming of Jesus to spread your interpretation of his word? *Or* is it based on your faith to which you perceive as the most grandiose alone to which again is based off ...conjecture. It seems when your views are challenged a bit, there is some sort of feeling of indignation that seems to surface. If you were so concrete in your beliefs, you would not feel the need discard mine since you are so..unwavering? It does lead one to wonder after all :) - Just know I never proclaimed once that I had the answers as I have the realization that no human can. I can only speak for myself and if my decisions sadden anyone or cause them to break out in prayer...well I guess that is what they feel they must do. My post was a response...it was not opening anything up to warrant your prayers but hey...if it makes you feel better, by all means....what could it hurt, right? I will say one for you to...I mean you are so kind so it's only fair. But regardless, I make my own 'literary choices' (as this is what this is about) and choose to live with an open mind. Thankfully my mind is very strong to which nothing I read will lead me astray; As in committing adultery or murder or allowing my mind to become injected with disturbing images frozen to which I can't escape. I guess that is the perks of a strong mind. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree!
on Monday, June 11, 2012 at 10:47 pm
on Monday, June 11, 2012 at 11:00 pm
Remember, the world will reject you and your message as we've seen here on this blog. There will be many who reject the Truth. There are many who would mask their evil counsel with words that resemble a form of godliness but in the end they lack the power to save or edify. Leave these people to God to deal with. We do not need to be their personal "Holy Spirit". Their own conscience and the Holy Spirit Himself will be sufficient to open their eyes. Yes, pray for them. Yes, speak truth without yielding. But don't feel you can win their minds over to sound reasoning. They are spritually blind and simply cannot understand that phrase. They only become hostile to it and make that their platform to detract the attention of anyone who would be swayed. This is an age old tactic used by Satan to undermine the faith and wisdom of those who would be saved...those who would make a stand for holiness. He will not win. No matter how many decenting blog posters he inspires. Thank you, Dannah. Thank you family of God. There truly is wisdom in the counsel of many Godly people. You will know the Truth and the truth will set you free. Cling to it! Follow it! Do not shrink back. :)
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 12:02 am
p.s. Are you married? Cause you seem like a woman worth persuing. (jk) lol!
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 12:08 am
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 12:22 am
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 12:31 am
You see..with humans it's all subjective and out of conjecture at times - you should DO the best you can. BE caring. BE Kind. BE generous with your words or time or any means you may have. BE gracious toward others. BE sympathetic even when you can't be completely empathetic to another persons plight. BE a good person. If you want to know how Jesus is reflected through us, it's when we as human beings exercise compassion & kindness toward our fellow mankind through our actions. THAT is what he taught first and foremost.
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 12:36 am
Keep the True Faith! Preach it! :)
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 12:53 am
That is my feeling exactly. I have not read the book, but have read articles about the book and am disgusted that so many women would like a book like this.
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 1:23 am
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 2:02 am
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 6:35 am
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 9:52 am
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 10:17 am
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 10:52 am
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 12:28 pm
God says how it is...I obey. No need to over think something as clear as this. Wrong is wrong...because God says so. I believe this book is unworthy of my attention. I'll set no unclean thing before my eyes. I'll not intentionally be foolish.
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 12:33 pm
Wow I must have made quite the impression! My name is mentioned so much it's almost flattering had it been under different circumstances! I guess the more thought provoking ones have this sort of an influence.
Yes yes! I did say I wasn't looking to get into any sort of debate over faith....I just made my own thoughts clear in a posting and I respect your opinions even if you feel my reasoning is convoluted. Hey...free world! My husband read part of this and said 'what a bunch of nut jobs, why do you keep posting'..lol. Now that's a good question.
What Mari said should pique the interest of anyone reading. She states those that are spiritually blind (referring to me I'm sure since it was after my postings) and further goes on about becoming hostile (umm not hostile) and making it a platform as an age old tactic used by Satan. Now isn't that fascinating? I express an opinion and that is referred to as a tactic by Satan? That is one of the most ludicrous and unintelligible things I've ever read.
My message is to simply make up your own mind free of
any 'humans' input and not to be swayed by their virtual throwing of stones. I sure hope that individuals can discern what is best for them without being clouded or influenced by anyone's input. You are free to decide what is best for you and it does not make you 'unholy' by any faceless being on the internet. Your relationship with God is your own simply put. And for those who decided it was best not to read it? I don't think I have ever said anything against that choice either. If the book is too harsh in your view with certain scenes regardless of the story (by reviews of others that are like minded) I would encourage you to do what is best for you as well. If that is Satan's message then I would think I'm quite the let down LOL! I would implore that each person should look within themselves and do what is best for them. My only grievance (and sadness) is with those that feel the need to shame others when it doesn't fall in line with their views. (referring to a person as Satan would fall under that in case there is confusion)
"Do not judge others just because they Sin different than you"
(This was on a Church billboard - Had to smile at that)
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 1:02 pm
Adding on, You didn't answer any question I posted although I did post it as a reply. You keep alluding to the fact that you tried? You used my reply to preach to me on how you feel I am less than holy.
When exactly did you answer any question I had? I read mostly statements such as these :
===
@sarah, some of your arguments are so flawed I hardly know where to begin. You don't come across as someone teachable
Your representation of your thoughts and feelings that you have shared here on this blog leave me and others to believe that your understanding is not correct. That is the result of your foundation being wrong
==
You and I also differ in how we respond or 'address' questions. I could never respond to someone in that way. It comes across as highly disrespectful
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 1:20 pm
The Bible states: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Saviour. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
Everyone interprets the Bible differently. This passage could easily suggest that the wife shall submit to her husband in the bedroom as well. If you don't want to read the book, then don't read it....but don't judge others and call them sinners because they do read it.
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 1:42 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 3:23 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 3:30 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 3:34 pm
It is unfortunate that some will feel that we all must be sheep and any deviance from ones created flock is most intimidating to which the virtual stones will come out flying....Beware. :/
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Thanks for all the warnings and encouraging words. Not one has come across as angry or out of line. The only ones that come across that way are from the new who don't agree with the author, Dannah in the beginning of this blog. It is a good thing to sound the alarm when bad things are being spoken of as good things. Keep up the good work for the Good Cause. Be blessed!
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 3:55 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Thank you for this word of wisdom, Dannah. It is a good thing. I'll not be reading material like this, nor will I encourage others to do so. It is a bad thing.
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 4:09 pm
I fully understand why some would not want to read it. I get that & never condemned them for their choice in this. There are people very disturbed by reading anything explicit when it comes to things of a sexual nature. With that said, I also think it's fine to warn others who are like minded and from there, they should make up their own minds on it. My perception has been that those who are reading the book are referred to as being less than holy in direct & indirect ways, 'prayed for'..felt saddened for and many things to which suggest they are less than good Christians for doing so. This is very wrong in my view and I'm not alone with this opinion. If you want examples in those posts, I can provide them. My point is to respect all viewpoints...very simple. As for clicking the 'x' on the page, we all have a right to express our opinions and you as well can click the x as much as I can.
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 4:14 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 4:22 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 4:53 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 5:12 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 5:43 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 5:54 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 6:42 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 6:52 pm
Just been a sheep and believe what you are told!!!
Don't read or think for yourself!!!!
Just shut up and wait for instruction!!!!
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 7:17 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 7:28 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 7:38 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 8:44 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 10:09 pm
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 10:37 pm
Seemed fitting to quote such a great man here. As many have quoted this scripture, "Be holy as I am holy" I thought this seemed appropriate. The quest for holiness should take precedence over our quest for happiness. Jesus died for an unholy people...to make them holy by the washing of His blood. How insulting is it for those who are called by His name to run back to that which is unholy, only to justify it by saying, "It's just a book" or "It's just a movie". Humans never had the luxury of deciding what God should consider acceptable. He decided that. We must simply obey. It's a privilege to honor God in this way. We do not make ourselves holy, we simply obey the words of the one who died to make us holy. And He blesses us for it. Thank you to so many who have stood for this here. Thank you, Dannah for sharing boldly.
on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 at 11:20 pm
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 12:14 am
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 12:28 am
Although, I may not necessarily agree with the whole of her first argument, her statement, "Reason #1? I believe reading erotica is sinful." is one to be heeded. If anyone feels that it is a sin for them to read this series, then please DO NOT! Guilt and shame are only compounded when you do that which you already feel you should not.
Reason two is basically about addictions and addictions come in many forms. In today’s society, people are already desensitized due to exposure to commercialized sex and violence through various media (television, music, magazines, etc.). Like a drug addict needing more crack, people need more explicit sex and more over-the-top violence to stimulate and maintain their interests. If you are struggling to protect your innocence so that life is still “like a box of chocolates”, then I would once again urge you to not read this series. Specifically, if you are an unmarried woman who is striving to live chaste as you await God's guidance for a spouse, do not read this series.
Having stated the above though, I cannot say that I am convinced by reason three and feel that four is somewhat unfounded due to the lack of knowledge concerning the actual series' content.
Reason 3: If a woman becomes dissatisfied with her husband and attempts to compare/measure her spouse against a fictional character due to reading this series, then there are most likely additional underlying issues. The choice to read these books was not a wise choice for the wife in the first place as it is exacerbating existing unidentified/unresolved problems.
Reason 4: Assumptions are made that the entirety of the story revolves around BDSM when, in fact, (as a few posters have already pointed out) the story only starts with one man’s addiction to the use of BDSM as a coping mechanism. Beyond that it evolves into a touching story centering on the power of love and the importance of family and friends.
Personally, I enjoyed the artistic and creative ability that was exhibited by the author, E L James, through the series. I would caution any prospective reader though that has doubts due to religious convictions or that is young and unmarried.
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 1:26 am
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 10:08 am
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 10:29 am
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 10:38 am
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 12:53 pm
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 1:10 pm
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 2:57 pm
I find it sad that some peoples relationships are obviously so fragile that they feel the need to censore their own and their partners viewing/reading. Surley if your marrage is as strong as it should be, nothing could come between you ?
I respect peoples views of not wanting to read these books , but why feel the need to preach about them to others who may find them enjoyable?...seems like all you strong preachers need to take a step back and think about why you are letting a book get you so hot under the collar that you feel the need to call people who read it sinners lol and how boring must your sex life be if you condem so much as sinful! perhaps you are secretly scared of letting a bit of fun into your lives ?
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 3:08 pm
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm
The porn industry is huge and it leads to other sexual sins - child abuse, incest, sex slave trade, prostitution rings, etc. Why would any Christ-follower want to have any any part with this industry? So what if this topic is just about a book of fiction? Over time, we begin to accept more and more ungodly actions as being normal and ok. Read a little, watch a little, read a little more, watch a little more and then we find ourselves not being ashamed or convicted about things that are not in line with God's Word.
A few verses are brought to mind (with my paraphrases).
Romans 12:2 (do not be conformed to this world)
I Corin. 6:12, 10:23 (all things are lawful, but not necessarily helpful, or edifying)
Rom. 6:1, 2 (do we continue to sin just so we can experience God's grace? No! God forbid.)
I find it interesting that the one's who are complaining about being judged, are those who are flaunting their freedom to do and read whatever they want and they are judging those who are holding to Biblical standards....
Personally, as a Christian seeking to glorify God, I would not be proud to announce that I watch porn or that I am into perverse sexual activities. Even if I felt it was an OK thing, I know that it would be a stumbling block for others. Regardless of what you believe, there will be a day of judgement. You might have convinced yourselves that everything you do is ok with God, but one day you will know for sure.
Romans 14:8 "If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written: " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' " 12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14 As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15 If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16 Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men."
I am also thankful for women like Dannah who are willing to stand up for their beliefs even when they may not be popular. She is fulfilling what we as Christian women should be doing - encouraging, instructing, & helping other women to grow.
Proverbs 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Thank you, Dannah.
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 11:05 pm
on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 11:45 pm
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 12:56 am
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 1:10 am
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 2:13 am
Bible.
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 8:14 am
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 10:54 am
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 1:30 pm
I just wanted to point out that there are two Rachels commenting. I did not post "I was actually more offended by the ignorance of your blog, than the Fifty Shades books."
In fact, I actually think that Dannah, J-ME, and Mari have made excellent points. I fully respect the women that have posted concerning their decisions to not read the books as I would never advocate someone opposing their God-given conscience.
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 1:47 pm
New International Version (NIV)
42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
This is to all who have commented about being told to judge. Make sure everything is right in your house and THEN tend to others'.
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 2:22 pm
Thank you for pointing out that there are 2 with the same name however I was clearly responding to the Rachel that stated "I was actually more offended by the ignorance of your blog, than the Fifty Shades books." - My apologies for not noticing a 2nd Rachel until now.
There was another Sarah at one time so I differentiated myself to see if that helped. So do know, I was not responding to you in this case and naturally we have opposing views so I will leave it at that.
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 7:34 pm
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 7:37 pm
Personally, I enjoyed the artistic and creative ability that was exhibited by the author, E L James, through the series. I would caution any prospective reader though that has doubts due to religious convictions or that is young and unmarried.
==
that was an excerpt from a longer post. Regardless, I did very much respect that post as well. It was eloquently stated without shaming anyone.
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 7:41 pm
This book degrades women and as a sexual abuse SURVIVOR, I pray that no one ever has to feel like I did when I was abused. This book should be burned!
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 9:11 pm
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 9:40 pm
on Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Ok, I will take a leap of fait and say I have read them. Don't really care what ya think:). Here's the shocking point, and let's see who calls me out on it. I did love the book, not the sex but the plot! Seriously like half way through the first book I was tired of the sex. And just like your crappy coments made above, I chose to skip through it. Ah, but the ones who also read and enjoyed it say you missed some important parts. Yes, I got confused at the end of book one, as to why she got so up set and decided to leave. So when events liked this happened I skimmed back and figured it out quickly and moved on. I was more into the relationship and could she be the one to help him escape his horrible past, and why is he so jacked up, which you want to know about so you just have to read book two. At the end of book two you want to know how they eneded up...Again all my free choice. Just like she had freedom to wire this article, I had freedom to chose to read it, and I chose to skip through the sex parts of the book, unless I had to fish through it to get the info I needed to understand and move on. And....pause because I hear the questions...yes I'm married, happily. No I'm not a prude, I just don't get excited reading about others having sex and honestly started to annoy me, but love the connection between the characters and the main plot in the story, and their incredible love for each other . Yes I am a bible reading church going God loving Christian:). Who is happy for those who are strong enough and comfortable enough in their faith to read the book. And equally happy for those who are strong enough and comfortable enough to be so bold and stand up for something in their faith that they chose is wrong. I'm happy with who I am. Either way at the end of my day, I have no say over what you do or don't do, not my business. It's all about your individual choice and what you are comfortable and not comfortable with. I tried to write a post with out judgement, however I have found things written without being said could be read wrong. So I appologize if anyone feels judged.
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 1:15 am
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 1:19 am
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 1:25 am
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 8:53 am
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 10:46 am
But guess my occupation...I sell adult romance products....GASP...Why, because we live in a world of sex. But wives way too often forget that is one their mates most important needs. I DO NOT & WILL NEVER BRING OR CONDONE PORN IN A MARITAL RELATIONSHIP. But in the marriage bedroom, their is little limitation. (As far as play) Even light bondage if both spouses are OK with it. As long as it involves the husband & wife ONLY, with no outside visual stimulation, spice it up. I promise there is a level of physical intimacy that opens an emotional intimacy level very few Christian couples find. As for the book Shades of Grey, I chose to read it for one reason. I felt I could learn more about a type of sexual interaction (BDSM) in the least pornographic style but from view of a relationship. Ladies like it or not our guys are visual. I just choose to be his vision!!!!
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 1:15 pm
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 4:54 pm
I said this before in another post but feel it's worth repeating ::
The scrutiny of human beings onto other human beings that claim they live perfect holy lives to which 'they' have the answers to which is laughable at best. No human can judge me out of what they perceive. I have only one judge the last I checked. That being is not human.
It is about what you do. You can't control every 'thought'..how completely obtuse to suggest such a thing. I can bet at any point in time about every person has had a thought that didn't bode well with the 7 deadly sins whether it was gluttony, pride, sloth, etc. And I'm not talking extreme. A soda or a candy bar could be considered giving into gluttony by some people - so is that impure? What about if I skip laundry today? Did I give into sloth? I'm wearing makeup. uh oh...Pride? I was angry earlier due to a conflict of interests with another person...would that be that wrath? I sure did like a boat a friend of mine and wished for a moment I had one as well - oops..was that envy? At Christmas, sometimes we all get or give well above what we should and do not give enough to charities - would that be greed? Some may condemn you to any one of those based upon what they feel coincides with that particular sin and feel 'sorry' for you as they feel you are living less than a holy life. How does it feel to be under such scrutiny?
You see..with humans it's all subjective and out of conjecture at times - you should DO the best you can. BE caring. BE Kind. BE generous with your words or time or any means you may have. BE gracious toward others. BE sympathetic even when you can't be completely empathetic to another persons plight. BE a good person. If you want to know how Jesus is reflected through us, it's when we as human beings exercise compassion & kindness toward our fellow mankind through our actions. THAT is what he taught first and foremost. I hardly feel Jesus would feel condemning over a literary selection to which is subjective would be putting any of those actions into place. Sure, warn other Christians of why you would choose to stay away yet understand that many may not see it as you do nor perceive themselves as unholy as a result. Jesus is forgiving and He taught by **not** sounding self righteous. Let's not forget the company Jesus did keep and how he went about spreading the word of God. It was the self righteous (HUMANS) who felt Jesus was not leading as God would see fit and thus had him nailed to a cross for what they saw as betrayal - And still....Jesus forgave us before God would destroy us all..
I sure am glad in this day and time, no one can nail another to a cross although the negative words toward others can seem that way figuratively speaking.
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 7:12 pm
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 7:55 pm
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 8:25 pm
http://www.sexinchrist.com/submission.html
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 11:18 pm
on Friday, June 15, 2012 at 11:53 pm
@Cindy..I agree
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 12:02 am
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 1:11 am
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 10:22 am
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 10:59 am
Quite frankly I'm stunned by all of these comments. By everyone! If this is the community of women that I have to look forward to in life these days then I am not very pleased by that.
Women on here calling others not holy. Women on here saying "well we all sin, and we sin differently." So basically just let me choose my own sin. Seriously? Have we come that far that we are willing to compromise what we feel might be sin in our life just because it's not as big as someone else's
This whole comment section is a joke. One woman wrote a blog about her feelings on why she won't be reading the book. And every one and their mother jumped on the bandwagon to comment telling her why she's wrong, and then get their panties in a bunch when they feel judged. IT'S HER BLOG AND HER OPINION!
Like I said.....read it, don't read....I don't care. But please don't sit by and make excuses for why you're doing something.
This is not a mature conversation with christian women and I'm just embarrassed by that.
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 12:43 pm
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 12:48 pm
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 12:55 pm
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 1:02 pm
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 1:17 pm
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 5:17 pm
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 5:46 pm
The truth is that they ARE NOT REALLY ABOUT SEX....IT IS A LOVE STORY about overcoming tremendous odds to find love.
If you would read the books then you would understand that. The first book only tells a quarter of the story. By book two and three MANY things change and happen to make it the love story it becomes. The characters also learn from their past mistakes.
I have been married for 18 years and it has in NO way hurt my marriage. As a matter of fact, it has helped me understand my husband more, the horrible life he lived as a child, and some of the battles he still fights in his mind today because of it (hurt, abuse, rejection). I now get him in a entire new way and appreciate him a lot more for the man he has become. It was a total God thing for sure. Hey, if God can use a donkey to talk to Ballam, then He can use whatever He wants.
Also, I think it is unwise to post comments about something you haven't read or seen with your own eyes. You are simply making a rash judgement on other people's opinions.
Anyway, seems like to me a few ladies have forgotten to read Song of Solomon in the BIBLE....... yeah, go read it...all of it. You will see what I mean.
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 9:10 pm
I started reading the book out of curiosity, and then stopped, not because of anything in it, but just because I didn't like the writing. So, I can't comment directly on what was in the book, or how it was portrayed, or anything like that.
However, what I do want to comment on is the BDSM and sex aspect. I am a 21 year old girl, who is a practising Christian, and who is also in a BDSM relationship. Oh, and I'm a virgin! Although many BDSM relationships are sexual, they are not all about sex. Many BDSM relationships are loving, caring, and founded on much respect. My partner, who is the Dominant one, cares for me, is always there for me, encourages me, and guides me to be my best. He has never once pushed me sexually, and has never done anything to harm me. He is not Christian, but fully respects and supports my faith. It has been the best relationship of my life.
For all those people who say BDSM is wrong, I just say that I have to disagree. What was wrong was my Dad, the Christian man, who used to beat me with a metal pipe if I got a bad grade on a test when I was growing up. What was wrong was my Mom, the Christian woman, who used to tell me I was fat and ugly, and who told me that if I ever told anyone about what my Dad did to me, I would go to Hell. But my Dominant, who takes me out for picnics, and holds my hand when we are walking down the street, and curls up on the couch on watches girly movies with me, is anything but wrong.
Maybe this isn't the norm. Maybe I'm the one who is mistaken. But, I just wanted to say that, for me, BDSM is awesome, and God is awesome, and my life is pretty awesome with all those parts in it. So, I don't know about the book, or whether or not people should read it, but don't write off concepts that are talked about as a sin, if you really don't know what they are.
on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at 10:06 pm
Even from a non-religious point of view, are these books really scintillating or intelligent? I doubt anyone who reads them grows smarter by the second.
Please. I'm BEGGING for someone to contradict me on that one...
Problem with Christianity today, is that as soon as someone mentions hell fire and damnation and sin...BAHHH! Everyone freaks out. WELL GUESS WHAT, PEEPS? The bible talks about sin and it's consequences! We all sin. But if you knowingly sin and don't even care, thats a different story. Romans 6. Look it up. (many of you don't even believe your sinning, as Christians, so this doesn't apply to you, obviously. You've obviously read a WHOLE OTHER Holy Bible with a different set of rules.
(Does not exist.)
If you're ok with sinning and reading porn as a Christian...good luck! Dannah "judging" you is the least of your problems. Try God on judgment day.
Nowhere in this am I saying that I am not a sinner. All of us are sinners! I'm no better than anyone else.
Ignorance and distortion of God's Word just drives me crazy. Pretty sure it would Him too. We all need to wake up and see that we are living in the last days. Not a time to focus on trivial, crappy books about Christian whats-his-face being a literary hero or good example for your marriage. Make Jesus Christ your hero. He IS the perfect example.
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 2:52 am
I thoroughly enjoyed your comment, Sad, despite your admission of DEVOURING such a fine (sarcasm) piece of literature.
The cereal killer MUST BE STOPPED.
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 3:09 am
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 3:28 am
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 11:30 am
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 1:26 pm
to @thekingiscoming - pretty much too much of a wack job post to respond to as you feel the end of days is here etc etc..interesting. But yes, some of us read for pleasure...not to 'learn' - there are worse things out there.
@Lola..This is what I meant by how some will crucify in due time....they preach they are allowed to vocalize opinions on the book or how they feel about what the book contains even though they have not read it....fine. no one cares - in fact diverse opinions are well received when stated with respect to those that read...but then the more nuttier posts start emerging questioning your faith, name calling etc....it's sad and comical at the same time. I'm amused by how they can claim to have the answers as a mortal human being - however I'm saddened by the lack of acceptance in their fellow mankind that have views that differ from their own yet they claim to be so 'holy'....riiiight......
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 1:54 pm
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 1:57 pm
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 9:33 pm
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 11:36 pm
I'm not offended by you calling me crazy. The end times? That's the Bible speaking :)
I won't bother reading anymore comments, so you needn't bother with a reply.
For those of you offended by strong, rebuking words: Matthew 11:12 The violent take the kingdom of heaven by force.
Penny, your post was lovely. There IS no condemnation in Christ Jesus.
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 2:30 am
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 8:34 am
These are the women that their husband go behind their backs looking for some good sex. Sad!
These books are amazing and the love story its so much better than the sex.
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 9:02 am
I will not spend any amount of time qualifying our intimate relationship or my wife's ability to please me. But I firmly believe that a man who has such a woman/wife as I have is truly a blessed man! Women, listen to me! Being a God fearing woman who follows in the footsteps of Jesus will not make your husband have wandering eyes or affections. That is a falsehood. A woman need not indulge in this sort of entertainment out of fear that her husband will be bored with her if she will not willingly corrupt her mind.
I find my wife's mind and faith fascinating. I find her convictions inspiring and her beauty unwavering!
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 9:49 am
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Still..Much ado about nothing.
@Paige, I agree with your post (naturally as I've vocalized mine to which anyone would know) - I will say at least Penny put herself out as accepting of judgment in the end to which tells me she is not hypocritical. I may not agree with her but she was better & more eloquently spoken than many I've read.
I do remember when Harry Potter was condemned and that was one of the most ludicrous things ever. That book is full of imagination, completely fiction yet enthralling until the end. Just my opinion. Granted 50 shades is different yet it's FOR adults & can't be compared; it does have a story and I'm quite surprised at how one can not separate the sexual parts from the story - so much so that they have not even bothered to read the story...I also feel this blog makes it 'sound' as if one has committed adultry just by reading it and yes entirely
too close minded for my taste. I just can't feel so negatively about literature with strong sexual content. I've read other books with just as much (if not more!) as well as many that had violent situations, many things that may be unnerving to some. (Stephen King can be quite graphic as well as Dean Koontz or Anne Rice - in fact Anne Rice's witching hour
would warrant more attention than this series!!) - I read the books for the 'story' and have never in one moment thought to imitate a 'book'! I read for knowledge AND entertainment. And I read an array of fiction as I do with movies. I am not sure why some would come down so hard on how some live our personal lives to which we are not hurting anyone.
More than anything this blog reminds me of Stephen King's "the Mist"...In the middle of what seemed like the 'end of days' as proclaimed by an extremely brash Christian woman, she managed to get herself in the heads of many to which showed how divided people can be in the throes of chaos combined with the unknown. (the dynamics of those
that were easily led by her was interesting) She caused more destruction among the people than she did with trying to provide peace. I don't feel peace was ever her goal - Just the love of the power it was giving her over others. And it had nothing to do with the end of days! Of course there were many
that were too strong minded when it came to her having the answers to which she would coerce others to attempt to harm them. (nice!) - It has some great messages about being too easily led by another human. In fact, her some of her tactics reminded me of how Hitler probably managed to get many to follow his lead. Sad.
Some of these posting *cough, the kingiscoming* are quite scary to imagine that I share their faith.
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 2:09 pm
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 5:01 pm
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 5:18 pm
Thank you Dannah for your post. It takes courage to take a stand for what you believe, especially when your stance is completely opposite of what is popular and accepted in the current culture. You have presented a much needed warning, and I think its a shame it was not more heeded.
Here's my $.02. I have read Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series. I have read Anne Rice's Witching Hour (and subsequent books in the series.) I have read the Sleeping Beauty trilogy written by Anne Roquelare (pseudonym for Anne Rice, btw), the Earth's Children series by Jean Auel and romance novels by the score. Almost all of these have been referenced in the above comments. I have gone down that road far enough to be able to recognize the signs of this particular genre. So do I need to read FSOG to determine whether I want to or not? No, not really.
During the 10 years or so I was reading those books, I was single and overly preoccupied with sex. My mind and my heart were not pure, much less holy, though you never would have known it from my actions. I don't think I would have been as preoccupied as I was if I hadn't been reading that material. It affected the way I thought about people in my life, and the way I thought about myself. Everything took on sexual overtones, whether they were there or not. My relationship with God suffered- I would rather read those books than God's book, my prayer life became non-existent- I knew He wouldn't listen to me anyway. I spent money I didn't have to continue to feed the hunger for those novels. I spent time that would have been better invested in my collegiate studies not to mention studying the Bible or actually DOING something Christ would have done. This was an actual addiction for me: Hidden, secret, compelling, controlling. My mind was diseased.
And then I met the man I married. He had a similar addiction to visual pornography. He was fighting it, as I was fighting it; both of us trying our best to put it all away and to grow. Not always winning.
A couple years into our marriage, I had stopped reading erotic fiction. But I found out that my husband had gone back to viewing pornography. I was HURT. And ANGRY. And Sad. In the time since he had started looking at it again, our sex life had deteriorated in frequency and quality. I see a direct correlation between the two events. There have been a few times I have picked up and read (or re-read) a book I KNEW I shouldn't have with the same result to our intimacy. I also know that when we are both living pure lives and filling our heads and hearts with pure thoughts our intimacy thrives both in quality and quantity. Thanks to God, we are in a good place right now, and hopefully will only continue to grow together.
So I can't quote any scientific studies, but I can say from my own experience that continuing forays into this type of material will have a negative impact on your life. And I will warn whoever I can- not about this specific book, but about these types of books. They are dangerous. They promote an unreal view of romance, sex, intimacy, and love. Though one book might not cause you any harm, what about the sequel? What about the next erotic series you pick up because you want another fix? And then when your husband doesn't measure up to the man you're reading about, what then?
With that said, I have also read the Song of Solomon. As many here have noted, it is also erotic literature. But this is literature that describes intimacy they way God intended it to be, between a married couple. This is literature that is also inspired by God, the One who created the marriage relationship and act of sex. It builds up rather than tears down, and has been helpful in rebuilding the broken parts of my marriage. To me, that makes all the difference.
Someone in the comments above made the analogy of putting a warning sign at the edge of a pond filled with carnivorous fish. A later comment brushed that off as being alarmist. Here's my point: If you haven't been in the pond, you CAN'T know how dangerous the fish are. A wise person will learn from someone else's mistakes and injuries and not venture into the pond to begin with.
Dannah- thank you again for a great post.
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 6:35 pm
However, I think some people's points are that they have relationships that these things have not effected their intimacy or connection and in which they are able to still have a connection with their faith and God. Every person is different and every Christian is different even if we share the same beliefs, I think this is what we all need to remember.
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 8:35 pm
First off I want to commend you on getting things OUT of your life that affected you so negatively & that were harmful to your own psyche by the admission of your own words. You are a prime example of *who should stay away* from the books.
BUT to state that books of any sort (or similar to those mentioned in context) will have a negative impact on anothers life based on your example alone is rather biased, bigoted & captious..don't you think? I can tell you of the numerous things that may impact my life adversely, but that would pertain to me as I can't generalize that it would be harmful for others. That's the same as saying *everyone* should stay away from alcoholic beverages vs one who is vulnerable to alcoholism. This is what the rest of us are trying to convey when it comes to 'our' lives. Referring to any sort of erotic fiction or other literary content as a 'fix' clearly shows that YOUR mindset is not one of which that should be reading this so I applaud you on staying away. You just can't compare your experience with those of different mindsets.
First off, I don't go around thinking about sex all the time..in fact, I had to laugh because I'm quite the opposite. I was this way before any erotic book or after. I'm sure my husband would be delighted if I did think of it more. I don't have a high drive. Never did..probably never will. I can relate the same line of thinking to violent books or those on sociopaths. I can't ever imagine thinking as some of the deranged characters I've read about...I'm always happy when they are captured or it ends well....so no affect on my psyche there either. I have also read many great classics and historical pieces based off medevil times. I especially love history depicting strong females such as Queen Elizabeth. As I said..I read an array of things to which may have some educational content or none at all. I have also never EVER compared my husband to any fictional character...that makes me laugh as well because that line of thinking is so foreign to me. It's fiction..not real. I can separate that yet I am amazed at how some can not ..yeah those who can not should stay away from the books. Sex addicts should stay away from porn or erotica...I never argued that ever. I'm more than happy you got over your addiction and wish you well in life.
As for whoever made the comment of the sign in front of pond with dangerous fish..it's an absurd comparison is all. Maybe not for you but for those of us that are not even close to being addicts or recovering sex addicts.
Food for thought::
If we all looked onto to what another claimed before making our own choices and without discerning things on our own; we would never know more that 1 person. With that said, I think I'll find my own path and my own truth. Peace.
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 8:36 pm
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 8:38 pm
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 9:42 pm
Are about so much more than the sex and BDSM.
I don't think anyone who has not read the books
Deserves to judge. I have a great relationship
With GOD. The books are fiction, but I am willing
To bet that somewhere out there, someone has
Gone through something like this.
The fifty shades trilogy is way better than some
Crazy book about Vampires.
I hope they make it into a movie. The author has
Been approached bu a couple of producers, so they say.
on Monday, June 18, 2012 at 11:35 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 12:16 am
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 1:08 am
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 1:11 am
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 1:31 am
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 1:33 am
The same happens to all of us. We are each accustomed to our own perspective and from what I've seen many of you are perfectly content with your perspective of "truth" . But some of you have become aware of something greater. You can try and try for all you're worth to convince others of what you can see. But until their vision is corrected and they can properly see they'll be hard pressed to understand. In their blindness they will make the same mistakes we've all made...they'll sin just as we all still do. Not one of us is able to open our own eyes so we must never forget that our increasingly correct vision is not of our own making. Instead we must keep joyfully and humbly telling others our stories and hope that they seek out the One who can open their eyes through the reading of His word and the faith of believing it in it's entirety. And the good thing to remember is that it is a never ending process! Like Penny said. One Christian learns one lesson and shares her wisdom with another. Another learns a different lesson and shares what he's learned with someone else. But first we have to stop believing that there is nothing more to see and seek Him! In humility we must listen to the testimony of other Saints and search scripture to know the truth of it.
There is always more to learn of God and his Holiness! So as I live I am continually being refined. I've seen more than I ever thought existed...and I believe there is more yet to see. I want to see more. I don't want to miss what He has in store for me. I don't want to be content with a shabby version of reality, beauty and life when something greater is waiting to be understood! I now have a taste for the greatness of God. I now understand that there will be no time in my life when I can say, "I fully understand" because I'll never fully understand until the day I die and I go to meet my Lord. Then I will fully see. Until then we all must strive to learn from each other.
In this case I must agree with Dannah and the others here who have had their eyes opened to this matter. They see what God has shown them. I've seen it too. It isn't a matter of superiority. What we've seen has been made known to us so it isn't of their our own worth or credit. The word of God, both old and new, is filled with the facts on this matter. Many of the scriptures posted throughout this thread are excellent references. If you want to see the perspective we've seen...read them. Go to the One who can make your eyes to see and your heart believe. Ask Him to show you what we are telling you we know. We don't want you to believe because we want to be the ones who are right. We want you to believe what we are saying because it's so beautiful...so good. What good would it do for any of us to become puffed up with our wisdom? We are the same as anyone else. We are only people who once were blind...more blind than we are now. But someone else may show us a thing or two some day. And we'll be in the same position that many of you here are in today. We'll be needing to cling to humility and listen in order that we may learn from the wisdom of someone else. I'm ok with that. As Penny has said, the rebuke of a righteous man is life!
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 2:31 am
My husband and I enjoy our sex life very much because we are interested in being intimate with each other; we are interested in in value: "...whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable..."
:)
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 9:57 am
You need to get your face out of the bible and out into the world a little more.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 10:26 am
Marriages are made between humans...humans SIN! LOL Humans lust, and humans cheat and humans explore ideas and emotions that are sinful. Marriages in which one or both partners do not acknowledge the human feelings and sins of one another are delusional. As I don't know any of the posters here, I will offer a disclaimer of such, however MANY of the "Christian" couples or individuals I know are the exact people engaging in BDSM and bondage AND cheating on their spouses... physically or thru lustful thoughts of others (if that's a sin).
Your (any of your) refusal to read a book of FICTION based on sexual desire do so because you know your response will be arousal. SEX and AROUSAL are physcial conditions - part of being human. I am unaware that by being Christian, all physical pleasure must be sinful to you. Do you not enjoy nice meals, or a cold pool of water on a hot day?? These are also pleasureable physical sensations...
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 10:58 am
And @kjc, you say that people sound like they are denial? Again your own opinion. How is it all of you have become leaders of psychology and religion and so on? It's just judgement after judgement and assumption after assumption. People do have self control, this is not denial. Just because some people become addicted to pornography and erotica, does not mean that they all do, in my opinion! (I'm not professional, just as many of you are not as well)
In the end God created us with a mind of our own and gave us a life to have experiences. It is that individuals decision to choose which experiences are ones for them. And yes some people make decisions that are not good for them in the long run, but there are ways to come back from it. So yes,if you are not the type of person who can read a book, and can't get the images out of your mind then maybe don't read this book! But that is not the case for everyone! And people need to start remembering this!
It is getting ridiculous with people quoting the bible and making analogies as if they are a professional in human psychology! The bible can be read in many different ways, and even each priest takes a different perspective on the bible passages in their masses! As well, even if you we're an expert in psychology and how the human brain works, you would know that anything is possible and that peoples brains do not follow a statistic. So even if the brain was programmed to not be able to love properly after lusting after pornography and erotica, that does not mean every person would be effected by this! There are so many stupid statistics out there about everything someone does! And that does not mean all hope is lost of a statistic tells you it is! Think about it! How many people are told they won't be able to get over a disease or walk, and they overcome it!
SO MANY OF YOU MAKE PEOPLE SOUND LIKE WEAKLINGS! Like we can never achieve anything of value if we do not follow the bible to the word! This is ridiculous! I'm a christian but I do not have to follow the bible word for word in order to be a good person, have a good marriage or have an amazing life filled with joyful experiences! (again this is all just my opinion)
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 11:05 am
These comments defending the book are sadly unsurprising. So many "churches" these days don't teach the truth and we're seeing the outcome of that. It's also very clear that many (not all) of the negative comments are coming from people who are incredibly defensive which usually signals an internal struggle.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 11:22 am
And why do people commenting defending the book, means that they are defensive? How do you come to that conclusion? Maybe it because people are commenting because they are frustrated with people who are constantly guessing at the worlds end and telling people what they are allowed to do as Christians!
You say churches aren't teaching the truth! Really? Churches have adapted over the years, this I agree! But really you say they don't teach the truth? So everyone is wrong but you?
And what outcome does everyone say we are seeing? Can you say sensationalism? Stop watching CNN everyday people! They put on what gets headlines! News stories that are horrible and sad are the ones that get most attention, which makes the news report every horrible story they have! It's not a sign of end of days, it's just more media in our face the there was 50 years ago. Bad things happened back then, but many just didn't talk about it.
It is just a book!
The biggest problem this world has is the hate people have for what other people choose to do with their lives! I don't go around condemning people for be strict Christians or for choosing a different religion or for what they choose to do with they life! Its people who condemn others for their behaviors and crest sensationalism that cause problems, in my opinion! And that is what I dislike!
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 11:42 am
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Mrs. Gresh is correct in her defense of her position not to read these books. The images produced by your imagination can seem just as real visually to you as actually watching it onscreen. The lustful desires involved with being aroused by this type of literature is just as physically stimulating and emotionally charged as the sexual arousal that is shared between you and your spouse in a loving and caring marriage. If this isn’t the case, please explain Penthouse Letters. This publication was not directed toward the emotional and romantic needs of women. It is directed at men, visually stimulated men. Does the fact that it is written word and not photos make it alright for me to read? Absolutely not! If I came home with a copy of Penthouse Letters you better believe that I would be finding somewhere else to sleep that night, as my wife would not allow me to stay in our home with that trash! The fact that it is written and not actual images does make it any less pornography. I have too much love and respect for my wife to look at or read that kind of material, and she feels the same way.
As one person’s comment stated above, yes the bible does say “something” about judging, but it is with regard to judging sin, not the person. As Christians, we are to hold other Christians accountable, which is a concept that seems to have gone out the window in this age of relativism. I admit it, I still struggle with lust, and if I’m honest about it, I probably always will. That does not mean I am sinning (in this area), unless I allow myself to. Scripture puts it this way in James 1:14-15, “but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.” Now that is pretty powerful! If my own evil desires produces sin and death, then it only makes sense to follow 1 Thessalonians 5:22, “Abstain from all appearance of evil.” When looked at in this context, it is absolutely true that this kind of material is very harmful as it is only written for self-gratification and self-pleasure and is no different than watching pornography, no matter how much you try to rationalize or justify it. Remember, as Christians, we are not held up to the world's standards, we are held to a much higher standard, God's holy, righteous, just, and perfect standard. If we would look at our actions in light of God's standard, something I also don't do as often as I am supposed too, I believe we would be in much better shape as a body of believers.
I, as a man, a husband and father, couldn’t be more proud of my wife, and all you other women who have made the decision not to read this type of material. It is perfectly acceptable to pass judgment on these books without having read them. Any argument to the contrary would be like saying you shouldn’t judge a porn movie with having watched it first. How ridiculous would that be? Sinful is sinful, no matter how many shades of grey are covering it up.
@Marris – your post was beautifully put and I couldn’t agree with you more. Sadly, until our eyes are opened to the wonders God has for us, we will continue to walk around blinded by every “shiny” object that Satan would put before us.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 12:55 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 1:17 pm
You made so many great points and this one I love : (A big Amen from me b/c you are right)
Its people who condemn others for their behaviors and create sensationalism that cause problems, in my opinion!
And that is what I dislike!
I read the posts throwing out scriptures like stones toward others they disagree with or insinuating they live their lives better and it reminds me of that movie "The Mist" by Stephen King....Human nature is far much more scary than the real unknown monsters were out in the Mist..Stephen King always does a great job when it comes to the dynamics of characters and human nature.
And you are right, bad things like WWII and 'genocide' went on back in the day..Bad things have always happened throughout history - environmental as well...we capture more criminals now (to which are seen televised) b/c of our advancements in DNA etc - The media is a complete circus when it comes to anything.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 1:55 pm
I've met Nuns more forgiving and open minded than you. Ministers, Reverends & Pastors alike. Keep on your path but please don't proclaim to know what is right or to generalize for the rest of us......you can't possibly do that.
So were Churches teaching 'the truth' during the times when the Old testament reigned? If you can state every scripture was the word of God, (the stoning of women to death, etc)..I have to wonder what kind of God you are worshiping. I made a choice to believe most of the New Testament however I'm not so dense as to think a human hand has not been involved in the clean up (as with writing the Old Testament) therefore injecting a bit of conjecture in here and there. Scriptures have multiple interpretations as well as contradictions. We just have to do our best to be moral; be good human beings and allow the word to comfort us and guide us yet ultimately make our own choices. Each persons journey will differ and that is OK. Not every thought in any person's mind is 100% pure. That is what makes us human after all.
If we all looked onto to what another claimed before making our own choices and without discerning things on our own; we would never know more than that 1 person.
With that said, I think I'll find my own path and my own truth. I respect yours...please respect mine.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 2:01 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 2:21 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 3:29 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 3:58 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 4:34 pm
Where the book spawned from, I admit I don't know. What it contains is a lot of Erotica to the point of it being deemed as 'mommy porn'...the argument is solely based off that and dismissed as being sinful and causing impure thoughts. Those of us that actually read a book before crucifying it have realized yes..indeed there is much erotica in this one and if reading erotica disturbs or causes you to partake in an immoral lifestyle then we agree you should stay away. Those of us that feel so strong in our faith or ourselves that we are unwavered by such a book have chosen to read it. We feel it is harmless fiction..not worse than many other things out there. However we acknowledge there is an underlying story to which is one of an abused male that learns how to love in different ways than he starts out so the erotica is not the only thing in this book nor what it's about. I do feel the blog and some of the comments and insults are made out of ignorance as well as less than Christian behavior being displayed with the insults but hey...we all sin differently right? It doesn't make it less of one just because one felt they were doing it out of 'love'....name calling and insulting is flat out not right. *Warning* others that are like minded about the content of erotica..fine. However condemning that choose to read it or labeling it a 'sin' without even reading it is seen as sinful to me. To each their own I guess.
I would encourage you to make up your own mind and realize not all Christians have forked tongues. Some on here (and their methods) are giving the rest of us a bad name.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 5:05 pm
These comments defending the book are sadly unsurprising. So many "churches" these days don't teach the truth and we're seeing the outcome of that. It's also very clear that many (not all) of the negative comments are coming from people who are incredibly defensive which usually signals an internal struggle.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 5:15 pm
I sure don't know how it started but your comment literally made me laugh. Twilight itself is about a vampire, werewolf & human in a love triangle. Their ages are no more real than the mythical creatures they are depicted as. With that logic, Edward is merely frozen in his 17 year old physical form. Technically he is actually just shy from being over 100 since he was turned in the early 1900s LOL! His behavior and mannerisms in the book are those of a person well over the age of 17. If anything wouldn't Edward be a pedofile? What in the world is he doing in high school for the billionth time? He's also been to college already..
Let's not forget that Edward and Bella do marry and come together in the last book (they are NOT under aged - Bella doesn't even want marry (it's on Edwards terms at first since he's from another time) and it's Bella who tries to seduce him and talk him into intimacy before marriage. Bella is 18 and close to 19 before changed) - they even create a half human/half vampire baby. Let's also not forget that Edward wanted Bella to abort as the foreign fetus was slowly killing her and said if it was a baby she wanted, he gladly offered Jacob the chance of giving this to her. LOL! Interesting. I guess the insinuation isn't bad but the outlining of the deed with details is? There was much in breaking dawn that is quite bizarre.
Ah but I digress..I'm afraid in 'vampire land' his age is pretty irrelevant as well as his CHARACTER as he's a VAMPIRE! Your argument is rendered as pretty insignificant based upon those facts alone. Talk about trouble separating fiction from reality here...funny!!! Thanks for the laugh!!
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Again you say 'Christians' as a generalization. There are different types of Christianity & denominations. I am one too - We have different mindsets. Try to respect differences if that is not too far of a stretch - Please make your choices for yourself and do NOT PREACH TO ME out of what you think I should or should not do as I'm more than sure if I had a peek into your life, I could rattle off many for you to improve upon. THANKS!! moving on.......
I do feel stating the book is sinful or making judgments about it as an entirety IS ignorant if you haven't read it *however* I have said over and over that if one is not comfortable with erotica or porn then by all means, warn liked minded people of the contents and allow them to decide on their own without comments such as 'less than holy' or 'sinful' or whatever name you choose for them. THAT is a sinful action onto another. Sin is Sin buddy. Or are there rules to it as I asked before? You say I make up my own rules..I guess you are doing the same? Such hypocrisy.
MY church teaches peace and tolerance...I am not sure what yours teaches to which I find scary. If any of us are coming across as defensive to you or anyone else it's because we are standing up
for ourselves regarding OUR choices - I don't think many like to be referred to as less than another person because of it. Get over yourself!!...you are a HUMAN! The mindset you are projecting is one that is not far off from Hitler!
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 6:02 pm
Should we also be leery of all the other items the Bible lists as unclean or unholy: wearing clothing of more than one fabric, eating pig or shell fish, a woman on her period, tattoos, child birth, planting more than one crop on a field, divorce, remarriage of same partners, , charging interest on a loan to a friend, round haircuts or trimming beards, braided hair, women who wear gold or pearls, and incense burned by anyone who commits any of the aforementioned acts.
For those who have given up reading fiction: which of the resurrection stories do you read and which do you dismiss as fiction? Matthew 28 depicts Mary Magdalene and the other Mary meeting the angel of the Lord. Mark 16 depicts Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of Jesus and Salome meeting a young man. Luke 24 says a group of women met 2 men in gleaming clothes. John 20 has ONLY Mary Magdalene going to the tomb, meeting no one. So which is the real account and which 3 are fiction??
The Bible contains many lists of abominations, many which were committed by our favourite characters. They were still blessed abundantly and used by God. Decoding the Bible is like evaluating art: it means different things to different people. It would be absurd if I claimed my interpretation of the Mona Lisa was better than yours. So it is with the Bible. That is why 1 Corinthians 13:13 summarizes what remains of the law: FAITH, HOPE AND LOVE. Our words to each other should be born of these items. Faith in our Savior and the hope for us to love one another more and more each day.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 7:08 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 7:35 pm
If you believe any thing other than that truth we believe you are the same as any athiest, jewish person, muslim, hindu, etc. We do not believe you are saved. We do not think your sin whether it's murder, rape or consuming pornography like this will make you more lost than you already are. Likewise, no good deed, no abstinence from sin, no positive thinking...nothing you do will be acceptable to God. Nothing that isn't covered in the blood of Jesus will ever get anyone into heaven. ONLY the blood of Jesus will save a person. Many will claim to know Christ, but by their actions and world view they openly deny Him. There is only one path to heaven. We did not carve out the path. God did. We simply tell others what we KNOW to be true.
For others to insist that we accept what they believe as being valid and sufficient is to insist that we deny our own faith. How hypocritical. You preach acceptance for everyone except biblical Christians. Trying to insist that we agree with you when you claim that truth is different for everyone proves you have no clue what being a biblical Christian is.
In this case we believe there is only ONE right way. JESUS defined the way.
If your world view, or faith differs from what we believe you are not one of us and we will not equate your faith with our own . It's just that simple. If that is the case reading this series will not compromise your faith. It won't condemn you more than you already are.
IF however you are are a biblical Christian, heed the wisdom given and flee from the sin of allowing your minds to be entertained by unholy liturature like this! There is no grey area in this matter for the biblical Christian. Allowing your eyes, ears and minds to be entertained by erotica, porn etc. is a sin.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 7:43 pm
I am saddened by this article because you have passed judgment on the book and the readers without even having read the book yourself. I have read books about child trafficking, drugs, sexual abuse, and other topics, in which scenes were described in detail. I have also had students who have read such books. They need some way to learn about the world around them and guess what--you cannot always shelter them and keep them in a little bubble! Just as you shouldn't live in a little bubble...
I am a firm believer that we have to know what is in the world to be a part of it and to bear witness to people. How can I witness to people if I do not understand them and their experiences? How can I witness to people if I do not have any way to relate to them?
How dare you pass judgment and pretend that you know exactly how people are going to act and react. You do not know me. You do not know my heart. You have no business touting your opinion as fact. I know that you did not tell me specifically not to read this book, or any book for that matter, but you are on here claiming that what you are saying is the truth and I'm sorry, it is only one opinion.
You need to be more open minded. If I was a non-Christian looking at this, I would not want to be a part of your closed-mindedness.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 8:20 pm
I liked this part best of your post:
The Bible contains many lists of abominations, many which were committed by our favourite characters. They were still blessed abundantly and used by God. Decoding the Bible is like evaluating art: it means different things to different people. It would be absurd if I claimed my interpretation of the Mona Lisa was better than yours. So it is with the Bible. That is why 1 Corinthians 13:13 summarizes what remains of the law: FAITH, HOPE AND LOVE. Our words to each other should be born of these items.
Faith in our Savior and the hope for us to love one another more and more each day.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 8:40 pm
Telling me I'm not a Christian by any sort of definition of my interpretations makes YOU LESS of a Christian than I could ever be. That act alone is a sin! No faith is better than another...It so much saddens me to see others that claim to be so holy point at others over fictional literature (of all things!!) and attempt to crucify them with their interpretations of particular scriptures. It's done in a very ugly way to boot.
'We' believe, we this, we that, you say?...I don't who these self proclaimed 'we' are that state they are the speakers of the truth but their HUMAN opinions are impossibly the TRUTH!! Sounds more like the Mafia or what Hitler spewed to be honest.
I embrace ALL religions and I feel God and Jesus are so much merciful than that of which you project. I'm not sure who you are worshiping....I'll agree we worship in such different ways to which I feel proud to be who I am. I feel the real overall message radiates one of acceptance. Maybe I stand alone in that thought but I'm still keeping it because more than ever I believe in it. I will pray for my heart to be continue to be humbled as you are the last thing I would ever want to project or be seen as. I am ashamed we share the same faith as I feel it's distorted and filtered as well as fitting to your own rules in your eyes. Not one person is asking you to change your faith or have they??...Only to be accepting of their own choices as we respect yours!
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 8:52 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 8:58 pm
@Sarah, Daryl and others, you do not serve the same God that I serve. We do not have the same faith. I reject your faith like you reject mine. And my God will reject you as long as you reject Him and His word. Your indignation over this is not something over which I have control. It simply is the way that it is.
Your issue of being put off because you have been considered "less than christian" is a moot point because you don't get to insist on being included in the salvation and faith of a people who's God and Word you willfully reject. You can try to pick parts of our faith all you want but it does not mean you are one of us. You can use the same terminology but the definitions are completely different. Your worldly christianity is NOT the same as biblical Christianity. Do as you will. Call yourself what you like. But know that the God who Is...the God who created the world, Jesus, will not accept you until you approach Him on His terms. You do not get to define His Truth. He already did that. We serve THAT God...you do not. You serve a completely different god that you have made in your own image and you have named him jesus because you want my God to be the same as your god. THEY are NOT the SAME. They never will be.
For those who serve the God who Is the grace given to you is not a license for immorality. Do not believe the lies that are propped up as truth throughout this thread.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 9:17 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 9:42 pm
Since you've already decided not to read it, I can say that the book is no where near as horrible as it might seem, and it has characters and a plot that deals primarily with love, healing, and growing as a person. The main character is messed up, but through the love of a good woman, he learns to overcome his dark past, and embrace a much brighter future.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 9:43 pm
I guess we do not worship the same God. If that is what you believe I'm fine with that as you have the right to believe as you will. There is one exception...with my God there is a difference. He WOULD accept you as much as me no matter how you figuratively stone those of us that do not agree with your views. The God I worship accepts us both...All I can do is shake my head and feel sad that you have reduced God & Jesus as being unforgiving and overly selective when it comes to humans. I don't have the answers but I believe my God will see inside of your heart as with mine and know who you are...I really don't feel this book will
make or break the way in. I feel it's pretty miniscule in the grand scheme of it all. Furthermore, I really don't care what you consider me to be or not to be...I am already included and accepted. I feel you are too. This blog is not about *how* we worship. It's about a fictional book. :)
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 9:56 pm
Just because YOU dislike erotica, just because YOU think it's wrong, does not make YOU right! Nor is anyone in the comments who is quoting the Bible right because of it.
If you don't like it, that's absolutely fine, but you have absolutely no right calling something like this sinful, and neither does anyone else.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 10:05 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 10:07 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 10:34 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 11:15 pm
@English, why can't she define her faith here? So many others have. Why hate her and shame her and not the others? She obviously serves a different god than the rest of you. So what if she points out the obvious!
For that matter, muslims don't think we'll go where they think they're going. Buddhist, hindus, jews, satanists, wiccans....all have differing views and they make no apology for it. If Sara has a dogmatic faith that is clearly defined what's it to you? She has every right to make the distinction if she wants with out your shame. And I'm an Athiest and can see that! I don't care if she thinks I'm going to hell cause I don't believe in hell! You don't get to define her faith for her! lol! You make me laugh with your bossy way. Do you know her? Is she a stranger to you? Then shame on YOU for scorning her for doing exactly what you just did to her!
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 11:18 pm
You made all the points I was going to make! I laughed out loud about the series being based on pedophile erotica. The narrow, ill-informed comments made here are the reason I have stopped attending church. I have seen time and time again people who would rather hide from the world than actually learn how to live in the world as a Christian.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 11:32 pm
Just because YOU dislike erotica, just because YOU think it's wrong, does not make YOU right! Nor is anyone in the comments who is quoting the Bible right because of it.
If you don't like it, that's absolutely fine, but you have absolutely no right calling something like this sinful, and neither does anyone else.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 11:38 pm
There is no good news without first accepting the bad news. The only ONE who can love someone into the Kingdom of God is God Himself. It's not for me to blurr the lines in the name of love. Truth is truth. There is a definite difference, as Sara has pointed out, between the God I worship and the God others worship.
I've read through much of this blog thread. Many have shared about God's love, His holiness, His mercy...etc. It's been covered very well both in scripture and in testimony. I said nothing that shouldn't be said more often. As Sara put it, we are indeed serving different gods. I could go through and name all those throughout the thread that speak the truth...but they already know who they are. They don't need my 'at-a-boy'.
@ Missy,
Pam used a good phrase, "True Followers of Christ". But no matter what name I come up with someone will be offended. And someone will be there to try to blurr the lines between the Truth of God's word and the wisdom of the world. We believe one of Satan's oldest tactics is to blurr the lines between God given Truth and the lies he would have us believe. From the start his question to Eve was, "Did God really say...?" Causing people to doubt the truth and consider a different interpretation of His words is not a new tactic. To mix lies a bit at a time into the truth seems to work for him... Just look at how many are doing this just in this thread. People take a little of God's word...like, "judge not..." and then proceed to skew the lines between Godly Christianity and their made up faith. And while they do this they viciously come against those who have made a stand for the holy standards God has set and make claims that we're the ones casting stones of judgement. Meanwhile the truth is...JUDGEMENT rests in the hands of God and not one of us here who are standing for the Truth have cast a stone of judgement. The STONE has already been cast.
Simply put, there are "sheep" and there are "goats". In the end they will be seperated. Because there is a definite difference between a sheep and a goat even though many can not tell the difference.
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 11:51 pm
on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 at 11:57 pm
If you are the same one that's been posting you are clearly not Atheist (not that I would care) but I feel it's a misrepresentation...Not only that but I don't think an Atheist would even agree with nor care about a right or wrong with 2 Christian 'camps' as you put it..the idea is so ludicrous it's funny! In fact, most of the Atheist friends I do have say things like this board and the postings are the very things that repel them from Christianity at all.
Furthermore, grouping Muslims & Jews with Satanists is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to begin. You are disrespecting their faith by even putting satanists in the same category as those who do worship a higher being whether you agree with that higher being or not. WOW!
Englishteach10 never said someone could not define their faith here...where does she say that? Why are you twisting her words? she said 'As a Christian, you have no business making such comments to complete strangers' - She was talking about how disrespectful Sara was in stating God would not accept others and that we were not of the same faith. Sara was clearly behaving as bossy & scornful. I'm afraid you have it backwards. If you want to describe your faith, fine...but telling others they won't be entering heaven based off your own beliefs is blasphemy at it's finest :) - if I ever need an example of the definition of that word, I'll be sure to reference her post.
No one cares about Sara's faith..it's only that the reference that she is somehow above all others in it. EnglishTeacher10 was entirely right...that is not Christian behavior...It was most certainly not taught for us to behave that way in my Bible classes growing up. Maybe I am not as stringent in my views but regardless I am a Christian Baptist whether you think I fit the mold or not. Sorry! You'll just have to deal with that one! :)
And please..again.....no one scorned anyone.....shame on her for trying to point out who is going to be accepted by God or who is not. I personally think all that are good beings to which HE can see will be. I must say I have my reservations in entertaining the thought that Sara has this most magical gift of discernment for our Lord. :)
And remember...God loves you too Missy....even with your new-found self proclaimed Atheism to which has me raising an eyebrow but who knows....maybe you are a different Missy than the one that's been posting. I just could be wrong on that. Peace!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 12:07 am
Does your "biblical Christianity" not include 1 Corinthians 10:23 "Everything is permissible - but not everything is beneficial. Everythiing is permissible - but not everything is constructive." Such as reading a book that some may find intriguing.
Has John 3:16 been removed from your Bibles: "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world." Will their wishes and plans not come to fulfillment?
Your contention that
"Likewise, no good deed, no abstinence from sin, no positive thinking...nothing you do will be acceptable to God." So your "biblical Christianity" has a God who dislikes good deeds? That is a God who doesn't care, who is tolerant of hedonism. If you think you are so good, you must ignore Psalm 14:3 - "All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one."
You said your God would reject me. Biblically, this is false. How would your faith allow you to bear false testimony? As John 5:22 says, "The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgement to the Son, that ALL may honor the Son just as they honor the Father." The last earthly judgement statement Jesus made was on the cross. His worst moment, when He should've been his angriest he said, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." If Jesus said this on the cross, you think he will condemn me because I interpret the Bible in a different manor from you? Proverbs 19:2 says: "It is not good to have zeal without knowledge." You don't have knowledge of my heart, so why do you think yours is so much better?
One can take the biblical view of condemnation, judgement and exclusion and find verses to support their view. Or one can take the EQUALLY biblical view of redemption, acceptance and inclusion and find verses to support their view. Your faith is the same as the Sadducees and Pharisees, which is understandable. One that worships code, laws and regulations over the loving, forgiving, grace-abounding example of our Savior Jesus. I choose to have faith in a God of HOPE and LOVE. He is extremely real. He is someone I meet with daily, hear His good words, accept His enduring love and forgiveness, see His good works and feel His tears for all of us.
Still, I don't judge you. I look forward to seeing you on that wonderful day when the veil of human interpretation is removed, when all we experience is God's love. The day we can celebrate that we are all in the fold of Christ, because as the song says, Jesus loves the little children, ALL the children of the world.
Hann and Sara, may the God of you and me bless you today and forever!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 12:07 am
Some people, some don't. Give it up already, this is not a debate that will be won and everyone just get on with your lives the way you see fit.
They should really disable comments if this is what is going to happen. You all are bringing to much negativity into your lives!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 12:12 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 12:13 am
At least Nonyobizz made an attempt to try to be respectful & reveal her views out of kindness. Gotta give her credit for that yet you had to rip it from her. Oh well.
I totally get that you think we worship 2 Gods by whatever derives you to this conclusion...As you wish...I don't care - frankly I'm glad because as I said, the God I worship accepts you as well as me - Yours boots me out because some of my views differ from your interpretations - I want to call favoritism but hey, this is YOUR God as you put it. *shrug*
But let me remind you this is NOT about how we worship and I don't care if you think that the heavenly gates will slam shut in my face. Think what you want. Free will. Again...IT'S ABOUT A FICTIONAL BOOK! Not our beliefs!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 12:21 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 12:32 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 1:44 am
What makes you think I care about the two camps? I am with the rest of your Athiest friends...you're all just a little out there to me! Your confusing with your qualifications! At least the Sara camp is clearly defined! You are more of Syncretist than a Christian. Of course that's just from the view of an outsider who's tried to "get" the Christian crowd. My ex-boyfriend's mom was a Christian so I tried to figure her out.
No luck there. Lol! But one thing I have noticed, Hann and Sara didn't come across to me as personally judging anyone. What I caught was that their clearly defined god did the judging and they simply weren't wishy-washy about it. I can respect that. That doesn't mean I don't respect others. If you believe everyone's in, including an Athiest,why is it a bad thing that I mention satanists in the same group of other religions? Are they bad? Is their faith in their god not good enough? Why don't they get to get in? You truly confuse me. Either everyone is ok or not. Judge equally if you really believe what you're telling everyone else to do!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 1:47 am
You've apparently caught the attention of a professing Athiest!
@missy, it's a shame you've not been able to "get" us Christians. I am in agreement with Sara. There are two groups claiming the name. One makes a god for themselves by picking and choosing what they want to believe. The other believes the whole bible. We vary in our convictions but there are definite clear cut no no's on which we do not waver. We don't believe any of scripture is fiction.
As for the different accounts of the resurrection, the only way I can explain it is like this: When there is an accident or something, the police take statements from bystanders who witnessed it. Each person will give an account of what they saw. They may even fixate on details that others did not notice. One might notice that the driver was on his phone. Another may notice that he had a cigarette in his mouth. If both do not testify to what the other saw do they discredit each other? Of course not! The officer puts the details given all together and writes his report. That is how the gospels work together. When viewed all together we get God's intended account. They don't contradict each other.
For those who think this blog is just about a book, you're wrong. Yep, I said it with conviction. You're wrong. The whole reason there are differing views is because there are differing faiths. If the faiths aren't clearly defined then no one knows what in the world all the fuss is about. Case in point...Missy and her confusion about the term "Christian".
Sara, I'm thankful you (and Hann too actually...as well as many more) called attention to the big white elephant in the room. The two camps of christians will never agree because they serve two different gods in two different faiths. The foundations are not even the same. I'm happy that you were bold enough and forthright in expressing it.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 2:13 am
I had to look that one up. Yeah, Sarah, I think Missy might be right. Your are more of a Syncretist. You seem to take a little of this and a little of that and blend it all together. That isn't the same as being a Christian, even though there may be elements of the Christian faith that you've adopted in your own faith.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 2:33 am
The Bible is divinely inspired, yet it is still written by human hands, hands that are not perfect. No different than if I write a book inspired by and about my father: it will have parts he likes and others he could do without. The fact that you and I have differing images/impressions of God is not exclusive to this era. It was present during biblical times as well. Peter and Paul disagreed greatly with each other, but neither suggested the other's faith or God was different/false (as Hann and Sara have). The Qumran Scrolls - the closest documents chronologically to the biblical era of Christ - have been adopted by many groups as evidence of their faith: Christian, Essene, Judaism and Sadducean. This clearly demostrates the appeal of the same God to a vast array of belief systems. This does not equate to the multiple God theory being proposed, simply the mass appeal of a great Lord and Savior.
Another analogy: if you and I play golf together, we will play to different levels, use different equipment, take different routes to the hole, but still end up in the same place. To say you are playing tennis because of the differences would be ignorant of the truth. We are both playing golf, just in different ways. Same goes for the faith in our God.
Not once have I said anyone here is not a Christian or doesn't believe in the true God. I would appreciate the same from my brothers and sisters in Christ. Unless of course, the golden rule is not part of this "biblical Christianity" I keep hearing about.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 2:53 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 6:32 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 9:07 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 9:15 am
Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lordc delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 1Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.
Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.
These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.
But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
It seems to me they made distinctions back then too. Seems their views were pretty strong. Sara and Hann are doing exactly what scripture tells them to do.
Daryl, you are a corrupter of the Christian faith. The fate of those who do such was mentioned a time or two in scripture. Read it. Believe it. Repent.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 9:48 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 10:10 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 10:33 am
Romans 12:14-16 "Bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited."
and Matthew 5:11-12 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
I pray for you Wayne and look forward to the day we will live in harmony. God bless!!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 10:44 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 10:47 am
Again, God bless!!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 11:01 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 11:38 am
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 12:23 pm
I believe that temptations hit people differently. For example, a recovering alcoholic is much more tempted to drink than someone who has never tasted alcohol. The same goes for this. Someone who has fought this temptation in the past knows they shouldn't give in and read this book.
While some may not see it as porn, that's sadly what it is. For those of you who are Christians and enjoy romantic novels, there are many Christian authors who wrote books about romance and leave out the sex and sadism.
Also, comparing it to twilight is a very poor attempt to rationalize your choice to read the book. However, it is your choice. And I didn't see this article as a judgement, only as a warning, which I for one am grateful for. Thanks you all for looking out for Christian men and women.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 1:19 pm
I commend you Dannah on your blog... you used biblical truths to back up your reasoning as to why you won't read this book... and I have to say that I agree with you. I won't be reading this book either... and the scripture that comes to mind is Galations 5:17-21
"For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in the time past, that those who practice such will not inherit the kingdom of God."
For me, reading this book could keep me out of my inheritance as a child of God... something that I am not willing to give up.
The Bible also says that "there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." No one is passing judgment on anyone who has read the book. The Bible is truth... and you can't pick and choose which truths to believe... either you believe the entire Bible is true, or none of it. Time is running out to be lukewarm... if we stay lukewarm, the Bible says He will spew us out of His mouth... scary stuff!
Thanks again Dannah... I will post this on facebook! God bless you all!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 1:23 pm
For Christians to bash other Christians calls for a hard look at the origin of all accusations of the brethren. We are called as believers to "encourage one another" in the faith. For some, that may include book or movie reviews. Especially helpful to those who truly seek to honor God's word from Philippians:
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 1:31 pm
==
this was a past reply of mine that only got scriptures thrown at it. There were others to which I brought up the Old Testament etc. All we can really do is pray for those who are intolerant and lead by example by behaving otherwise. (as you have done better than me) - Like you I will always keep the faith and not let faceless internet paper tigers silence me no matter how they try to bait
==
Of course there is such a thing as trying to live
up to the impossible - that is because of the tons of contradictions in the Bible, (including Old Testament vs new) the questions of what is impure, what is not but more importantly? The scrutiny of human beings onto other human beings that claim they live perfect holy lives & 'they' have the answers to which is laughable at best. No human can judge me out of what they perceive. I have only one judge the last I checked. That being is not human.
It is about what you do. You can't control every 'thought'..how completely obtuse to suggest such a thing. I can bet at any point in time about every person has had a thought that didn't bode well with the 7 deadly sins whether it was gluttony, pride, sloth, etc. And I'm not talking extreme. A soda or a candy bar could be considered giving into gluttony by some people - so is that impure? What about if I skip laundry today? Did I give into sloth? I'm wearing makeup. uh oh...Pride? I was angry earlier due to a conflict of interests with another person...would that be that wrath? I sure did like a boat a friend of mine and wished for a moment I had one as well - oops..was that envy? At Christmas, sometimes we all get or give well above what we should and do not give enough to charities - would that be greed? Some may condemn you to any one of those based upon what they feel coincides with that particular sin and feel 'sorry' for you as they feel you are living less than a holy life. How does it feel to be under such scrutiny?
You see..with humans it's all subjective and out of conjecture at times - you should DO the best you can. BE caring. BE Kind. BE generous with your words or time or any means you may have. BE gracious toward others. BE sympathetic even when you can't be completely empathetic to another persons plight. BE a good person. If you want to know how Jesus is reflected through us, it's when we as human beings exercise compassion & kindness toward our fellow mankind through our actions. THAT is what he taught first and foremost. I hardly feel Jesus would feel condemning over a literary selection to which is subjective would be putting any of those actions into place. Sure, warn other Christians of why you would choose to stay away yet understand that many may not see it as you do nor perceive themselves as unholy as a result. Jesus is forgiving and He taught by **not** sounding self righteous. Let's not forget the company Jesus did keep and how he went about spreading the word of God. It was the self righteous (HUMANS) who felt Jesus was not leading as God would see fit and thus had him nailed to a cross for what they saw as betrayal - And still....Jesus forgave us before God would destroy us all..
I sure am glad in this day and time, no one can nail another to a cross although the negative words toward others can seem that way figuratively speaking.
Read this ::
The Pharisees charged that Jesus was "a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners" (Luke 7:34). Even though Jesus belonged to the middle class, he reached out to people of the lower class. On one occasion Jesus said to some religious leaders in Jerusalem, "The tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you" (Matthew 21:31).
It's not hard to see why the Pharisees and others were upset that Jesus had table fellowship with people who were morally questionable. These individuals were profiting by disobeying the command of God and betraying their own people. They were what the Old Testament calls the wicked, unworthy to be part of the people of God.
Now, if Jesus had fellowship with tax collectors and sinners in order to preach to them, the Pharisees would not have fussed. After all, who would have objected that tax collectors and sinners were forsaking their sinful lifestyle, making restitution, and seeking a life of righteousness? The Pharisees believed that God offered forgiveness when sinners repented. They could even rejoice that a wretched sinner saw the light and was converted from a life of debauchery.
But what infuriated the Pharisees was that Jesus was not explicitly or directly asking tax collectors and sinners to do any of this. Some of them no doubt did repent, such as Levi (Luke 5:28). But Jesus seems to have accepted them as they were and was freely having dinner with them without requiring that they first clean up their lives.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Whew. Once again I'll be brief. I had a common encounter with the 'other' Missy to which I decided she was not worth engaging with.
you say :
If you believe everyone's in, including an Athiest,why is it a bad thing that I mention satanists in the same group of other religions? Are they bad? Is their faith in their god not good enough? Why don't they get to get in? You truly confuse me. Either everyone is ok or not. Judge equally if you really believe what you're telling everyone else to do!
==
my response ::
Because Satan is the opposite of God. You choose God or you choose Satan. It's a distinctive choice between all that is light or that of which is dark. The religions mentioned are all of which that worship a higher and moral power. Christianity, (with the many denominations to which could fit the definition of syncretism as well) Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish...etc are all faiths that worship what they perceive as one that promotes 'good'....Satan is an entity that is entirely the opposite of anything that is good. Why don't you read this article..and you tell me......
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/1691088/Teens-eaten-by-satanists.html
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 2:11 pm
I do not align myself with the kind of christian faith that doesn't believe the bible is the infalible, authoritative, fully inspired word of God either. I do not believe people who say they know Christ but deny the Words of the bible really know Christ.
We're not just dealing with adiaphora here. This discussion is for the most part about different faiths all together! I say this because it isn't just dealing with grey areas of the Christian faith like politcal persuasion, drinking alcohol,playing cards, dancing or dating etc. We're dealing with core doctrine.
"In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us." Jesus is the Word of God. He was the one who created the heavens and the earth and all else that is...with his Words. When someone discredits the bible they deny Jesus the Word in flesh, the creator of all. This is a core doctrine in my Christian faith. For those here who think nothing of reiterating that they feel the bible has errors, we can't depend on it, we can't define truth cause it's different for everyone, we can't make a stand for truth because we invalidate our own faith...etc. you are wrong. You are wrong at the core doctrine of the Christian faith that I hold to. So yes, we are talking about at least two different kinds of "christian faiths". The Christian faith I hold to agrees with Penny,Marris, Hann, Sara, Wayne and others here who have spoken what I consider the absolute truth, including Dannah the author of this blog.
The lines between biblical Christianity and the faith represented here as the 'christian faith' need to be drawn clearly and consistantly without shame by those of us who know the TRUTH...Jesus...the Word...God. There is only ONE WAY. There is only ONE Truth!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 2:26 pm
Ooooh. So those are grey areas with the 7 deadly sins however with literature of choice, all is clear cut. Interesting analogy but alas..HYPOCRISY. Sorry but sin is sin. Especially in your context...there are NO grey areas. There's a ton of scriptures to back that up, but at this point I don't feel the need.
And it's not about different faiths...It's about how we choose to worship to which I respect everyone's ideal to which I would never have the audacity to say that you will not be welcomed by our Lord & Savior. Just because it's YOUR way doesn't mean it's THE way but I'm sure God respects the fact that you are a God fearing & good person regardless - *if* that is in your heart. Peace! :)
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 3:44 pm
It hurts to watch books like "50 Shades" reach the bestseller list when authors like me struggle because we don't write 'erotica' or other trash.
Even my church family across the nation hasn't been very receptive to my second book.
My first book "False Victim" was a psychological thriller based on a true story that happened to us. I sold movie rights and it was on Investigation Deiscovery as well. It was a very intense, scary story that did very well. The Hillbilly Debutante Cafe? Not much....I am finding out the hard way that although Christian women say they WANT good, clean, fun - what they really want is the trashy and the questionable.
I am praying that you'll give me a chance.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 3:47 pm
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm
Honestly. Best laugh I've had in awhile. Thanks.
You people and your fictional books...Love you!
Trololollololololol.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 4:27 pm
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 4:51 pm
My god allows only those covered with the blood of Christ! Not one person who rejects Him will be allowed to enter.
John 14:6"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John 3:17"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
Different faiths...different Gods!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 5:01 pm
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 5:17 pm
I believe God can see inside ones soul. I believe that God knows who you are and...who you are not. Your intentions, etc. The God I believe in is forgiving and understands there is unintentional confusion at times due to science, many other faiths, those repelled by faith for various reasons, those with abused pasts that may feel rejected by God...an array of things. This does not make them bad or evil people....I feel both God & Jesus are just a bit more kind than as how you have identified with them to which saddens me. I am surely not familiar with how a satanist worships but by the sound of it, it seems to be of something to which a person chooses to bond with Satan/Lucifer so that's a different category all together *in my view*. That is choosing evil and admitting to embracing darkness in your heart. Other faiths are still genuine at heart...Do you feel God condemns a Buddhist or a person of the Jewish faith to hell? I sure don't. I know so many of the Jewish faith that are pure of heart so I could not fathom that. I feel we all have a faith to which we identify with the best and embrace....I feel THE ACTUAL TRUTH will be revealed in the end. Maybe I am wrong in what I believe..I could never be so blase to say I'm perfect or have the answers.....I do know that I am a good hearted person to which treats others as i would want to be treated and I do know that counts.
I know you just want to keep entertaining this over and over and over - sigh. Nothing will change. I know you truly believe that when I arrive to heaven, the pearly gates will slam shut in my face with a drop door to straight to hell over my views. That is completely your opinion and I won't lose sleep over that. Just know I don't feel that way about you.
However you will have to live with the fact that we differ and there are MANY that believe as I do; with a more forgiving nature. It's not a different faith lol...but call it what you will. Like I said free will....we choose to worship differently. :)
This is the very last time I will elaborate on how I choose to believe...No matter what there are going to be disagreements and some will have to pay attention to their own lives and move on from mine as intriguing as mine must be. :) Why you are so obsessed with how I choose to live or why it seems to anger you so much is something you will really need to deal with because continuing to badger or insult won't phase me. I sure pray you don't live so negatively day to day...it's not good for your soul. Peace and light!
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 7:00 pm
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 7:25 pm
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 7:53 pm
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 7:55 pm
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 9:58 pm
"They say there's a Heaven for those who will wait Some say it's better but I say it ain't I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints The sinners are much more fun..."
If there was a heaven and a hell, my hell would be going to your heaven.
on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 11:54 pm
Most women wouldn't dare to go to an adult store to get a PORN movie... but they would walk into a public bookstore to buy this book or even worst, put your name on a WAITING LIST fr this book... This book will suck time of your life you could invest in better activites.
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 12:02 am
Some people do not equate this book to porn as it has a story and some enjoy the entertainment it provides & are not bothered by the sexual content it has in order to enjoy the full story. For them it's not trash. I'm reading it and there is much more to it than the sexual content, that is for sure. I would much rather read this book than to view porn (porn doesn't contain the story this has I'm afraid and I'm not looking for that kind of gratification) - so in my mind they are not one in the same in the very least.
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 12:25 am
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 9:21 am
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 9:22 am
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 9:26 am
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 9:57 am
"But know that the God who Is...the God who created the world, Jesus, will not accept you until you approach Him on His terms."
I guess I should have read the previous comments before choosing a name. My Jesus, accepts everyone and meets everyone where they are, no matter the condition of their soul...even those who don't realize they need him yet. His love is unconditional and undiscriminating :)
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 1:52 pm
I agree 'turtle8529'...it's nowhere close to being porn for me either..just an extreme ..*very* extreme comparison made by some.
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 1:56 pm
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 1:58 pm
"Haha. 50 Shades of Gray is the new Smirnoff Ice for Christian Women, most have tried (read) it, but will deny they ever did."
I changed to Sara2 to be less confusing, not sure if that worked, ha!
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 2:08 pm
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 2:40 pm
"Haha. 50 Shades of Gray is the new Smirnoff Ice for Christian Women, most have tried (read) it, but will deny they ever did."
I changed to Sara2 to be less confusing, not sure if that worked, ha!
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 3:20 pm
"The Song of Songs was written circa 900 BC, in the northern dialect of ancient Hebrew, by an author of unsurpassed literary ability, adept at the techniques of alliteration and polyprosopon, able to create the most sensual and erotic poetry of his day, and all the while incorporating into his work a subtext critical of the Judahite monarchy in general and Solomon in particular" Noegel and Rendsburg, Solomon's Vineyard: literary and linguistic studies in the Song of Songs, (Society of Biblical Literature, 2009), p. 184
And before you accuse me of it, I'm not reading it either. But only because it doesn't interest me.
For those of you looking for good non-fiction, I recommend "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins, and "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris.
on Thursday, June 21, 2012 at 11:59 pm
2 Tim. 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"
Teaching- all the doctrine I believe and teach comes from the word of God.
Rebuking- we are accountable to the highest standard...God's...which is laid out for us in scripture.
Correcting- human kind naturally is prone to wander. We need correction in our thinking and reasoning because we do not think like God.
Training in righteousness - by constant application of Godly principles taught in the Word of God we train ourselves to be holy.
When the validity of the Word of God is undermined by false teaching there is sure to be errant theology.
I find so much of this blog is filled with errant theology. But I am very thankful for posts like Penny's, Hann's, Sara's, Godis...and others. I'm with you in this. And I believe God is with us too. His Truth will prevail. Keep praying. Keep believing. Keep speaking the Truth in Love. Keep the faith guys!
on Friday, June 22, 2012 at 12:11 am
As for the comment about there being no storyline..there is. A man who was abused (doesn't know or understand how real love works)meets a woman who in the series changes him. She shows him what true love is, what it means and what it should look like. Yes, there is sex and some BDSM in the book. BUT IT IS NOT THE WHOLE BOOK! She isn't into it until later. More so when they are engaged and married (sex between a husband an wife can be explored in diff ways and try new things.) But the series is about this couple, their journey together (not just sex.) He actually is romantic, she was a virgin and at the end it talks about their children and life together etc. She also has a job amd they talk about that (which he supports.)
So I just think its a bit odd to comment on something where you don't have all the information. I also think its sad the way women have judged "I feel very sad for these women who read it." I really hope this blog entry and these comments are coming from a good place and not using this as "religious umbrella" to pass judgement. AND for the (Translation: It is sin.) So is gossip and lying (which everyone does.) Last I checked, no one had the right to judge us but God and honestly I'm thankful for that.
on Friday, June 22, 2012 at 12:43 pm
As for the comment about there being no storyline..there is. A man who was abused (doesn't know or understand how real love works)meets a woman who in the series changes him. She shows him what true love is, what it means and what it should look like. Yes, there is sex and some BDSM in the book. BUT IT IS NOT THE WHOLE BOOK! She isn't into it until later. More so when they are engaged and married (sex between a husband an wife can be explored in diff ways and try new things.) But the series is about this couple, their journey together (not just sex.) He actually is romantic, she was a virgin and at the end it talks about their children and life together etc. She also has a job amd they talk about that (which he supports.)
So I just think its a bit odd to comment on something where you don't have all the information. I also think its sad the way women have judged "I feel very sad for these women who read it." I really hope this blog entry and these comments are coming from a good place and not using this as "religious umbrella" to pass judgement. AND for the (Translation: It is sin.) So is gossip and lying (which everyone does.) Last I checked, no one had the right to judge us but God and honestly I'm thankful for that.
on Friday, June 22, 2012 at 12:43 pm
I definitely agree and have been quite surprised at how it turned into a forum about discussing how others worship to which I left my very last comment on that topic as I won't entertain that anymore. The entire inclination that some are better than others is getting pretty old. It's just a fictional book and yes, contains erotica. If people would get more involved in doing for others and being better/kinder people with this kind of passion, the world would be a better place.
on Friday, June 22, 2012 at 2:06 pm
The bible is the reason I reject unholy things like this book. The bible is the reason I will not back down from this position. Thank you for all those who know the truth and are willing to stand up for it and proclaim it without taking on the shame of those who would rather have us be silent on matters like this. Keep preaching the TRUTH! Preach it and LOVE!
on Friday, June 22, 2012 at 4:45 pm
on Friday, June 22, 2012 at 5:16 pm
I think it is just the day inwhich we live in. Coming back to Sodom and Gomorrah as the Bible states.
I do feel that women are more ok with this kind of "garbage" because they are lacking a good man in their lives.
I read a great book called "Captivating" and my husband read "Wild at Heart". These books talk about how God created a woman to be like His tender heart and man after the strength of His heart. Women crave for a man to "rescue" her, and man craves to rescue a "beauty".
If anyone wants to read a great book, I would suggest these. And of course the Bible. What better relationship is there than the one between Creator and His created child? None.
Thank you for taking a stand!!
on Saturday, June 23, 2012 at 11:09 am
Sorry but in my eyes that sounds more like garbage as it stereotypes men to be one thing and a female to be another as in gender roles. Many of us are modernized more than that. I'm not saying it wasn't a decent book but I would not enjoy that at all as I loathe gender roles to a degree. I enjoy my independence way too much and my ability to choose. And it doesn't mean we don't have fantastic men...Mine is a hands down hard working (as much s I am) and gorgeous guy to which we share an emotional bond as well as kids. Some of us are not living in the 50's nor would we want too....*shiver*...I don't want some guy rescuing me unless I don't have another option naturally (as in literally)...That sounds like Old Testament baloney. I read 'outside' of the Bible and Christian writers..oooh I'm such a deviant.....LOL - I'm actually shocked that there's a certain breed of women left that reflect a time to which we were not equal. We still strive for it completely today.
on Saturday, June 23, 2012 at 3:05 pm
on Saturday, June 23, 2012 at 3:41 pm
on Saturday, June 23, 2012 at 8:43 pm
In Micah 6:8 it says, "What is the whole duty of man? To do justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." Because God is the creator of the world and all there is, He is the one to define what is good and just and merciful. God knew when he gave the Law that no one was good, no one was just, no one could ever fulfill His will. So He worked salvation for us. The creator Himself became a man, lived a perfect life, died a horrible death, suffered the wrath of God the Father to atone for the sin that we committed and rose again, freeing forever those who put their faith in His name, Jesus. He defined mercy in the person of Jesus. All of salvation hinges on the name of Jesus. ANYONE who calls upon the name of Jesus, no matter what you've done, will be saved. But the key is faith.
These next verses are taken from Romans 10. "And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, 'Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.' Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. For “Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved.”
But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, 'How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!'"
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him." Heb. 11:6
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Heb. 11:1
Satan does not want people to see the harmony of the testaments because he does not want people to connect the dots. He doesn't want people to see and believe. He doesn't want people to realize the beautiful story of God's creation, the fall, the humbling, the salvation given, the victory over death and the reign of Christ at the end of the world. What Satan wants is for people to think they can make up the rules of goodness and righteousness as they go along because in doing so they do not realize their need for THE Saviour. And truly people make great efforts to make an earnest attempt, but alas, no amount of trying will make a person right with God unless they come to Him on His terms. His terms are that we accept the work of Jesus on the cross, believe in Him and repent.
When people undermine the validity of the Word of God the truth is lost to them because they have no faith...they refuse God. What so many don't realize is that Jesus IS the Word of God. So to deny the Word of God is to deny Jesus. This is exactly what Satan wants. But God wants YOU! HE loves YOU! So many of those here are here to tell the truth, because HE sent us. We do not shrink back from telling the truth because the Truth of God's love is life to you.
I know that so many refuse God's word and Jesus as the only way. But we believe that by the preaching of God's word, spiritual eyes that are blind can be opened. And Satan knows this to be true too, that is why he prompts so many to be hateful to those who speak the truth and that is also why he seeks to stifle the Truth. He knows that Faith comes from hearing the Word of God!
Listen all you who have ears to hear! God loves you! He want's you to come to Him. He has made a way for you in the name of Jesus. Jesus is the only way. His blood washes away all sin from your heart no matter how bad it is, so that you are able to stand in the presence of the Lord on the day of judgement. And when the books are opened and we are called to account for every deed both good and bad, and Satan is there to accuse us, those washed in the blood of Christ will have HIM standing there speaking for us and paying for our sins. But those who reject the Word of God, JESUS, will not have that same outcome. He will say to them, "Depart from Me. I never knew you."
Salvation is a free gift. When we accept the terms of God's salvation and are saved we are now a new creation. Our hearts are new! We are given a new nature, a spiritual nature that says, "Yes" to God. We begin to reject the wrong and choose what is right.
Dannah and many here are simply holding out the Truth of what God has said. She is teaching about what is wrong and encouraging people who have placed their faith solely in Jesus, people who are NEW CREATIONS to choose what is right. New Christians often don't know what is right and wrong because they have not learned from the powerful Word of God what wrong is yet. But those of us who have come to know God and have learned what His expectations of righteousness are teach and preach the truth to others so that they will learn to choose holiness and reject unrighteousness.
Things like Fifty Shades of Grey, pornography...anything that glamorizes, glorifies or beautifies wickeness to make it seem less wicked should ALL be avoided and rejected. Reject the wicked way instead of the Godly counsel given here.
on Saturday, June 23, 2012 at 11:32 pm
Much Blessings
Mary
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 2:18 am
Much Blessings
Mary
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 10:43 am
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 12:17 pm
I DO NOT read for sexual gratification or self pleasure - why do you assume that is what women are doing when they read these books? And personally, when I see, hear, feel, smell, ANYTHING that makes me think of sex, the one I absolutely lust for is my husband. I do not picture other men, I do not want to touch other men, I only lust for him....so does that make my lust wrong? If something I read happens to increase my desire for HIM - my husband - does that make it bad/wrong?
I understand that some people should abstain from doing things, watching things, reading things that will cause them to sin. Those "things" are different for everyone though, we all have our own demons to avoid, things that make us lose sight of our God. Reading about sex might be your demon, and may cause you to have lust in your heart, but for someone else it could be reading about cooking - and you may laugh, but I'm serious. This is a twisted world and the things that conjure up lustful thoughts for some people could be things that you read every day. So don't judge. The person sitting next to you may be reading the following:
How beautiful are your sandaled feet,
O queenly maiden.
Your rounded thighs are like jewels,
the work of a skilled craftsman.
Your navel is perfectly formed
like a goblet filled with mixed wine.
Between your thighs lies a mound of wheat
bordered with lilies.
Your breasts are like two fawns,
twin fawns of a gazelle.
Your neck is as beautiful as an ivory tower.
Your eyes are like the sparkling pools in Heshbon
by the gate of Bath-rabbim.
Your nose is as fine as the tower of Lebanon
overlooking Damascus.
Your head is as majestic as Mount Carmel,
and the sheen of your hair radiates royalty.
The king is held captive by its tresses.
Oh, how beautiful you are!
How pleasing, my love, how full of delights!
You are slender like a palm tree,
and your breasts are like its clusters of fruit.
I said, “I will climb the palm tree
and take hold of its fruit.”
May your breasts be like grape clusters,
and the fragrance of your breath like apples.
May your kisses be as exciting as the best wine,
flowing gently over lips and teeth.
Well, I don't know about you, but this is Hot! And it's straight from the Bible. This is a guy describing a woman he desires. I don't know about you, but the Song of Solomon makes me think of nothing but sex. Does that mean I shouldn't read it? It's in the Bible. What do you think that the purpose of this book is? Remember when someone important said - It is okay to be angry but do not sin...?? I think we all know who that was.
So fellow readers I say - Go ahead and READ but DO NOT SIN! You cannot isolate yourself from the things of this world. How will you ever reach those that need to know Him if you are out of touch with everything around you because you've stopped reading, watching, hearing, and living in this world? Be in the world but not of the world....or you will miss those who need Him the most. The prostitutes, the thieves, the liars, and the LEAST OF THEM. You can go ahead and sit at home and surround yourself with Godly things and Godly people....as for me - I'm going out there, I'm getting my hands and feet dirty and I'm going to guard my heart and try not to sin while I live IN this world, so that at the end of my life I can hear...."Well done my good and faithful servant, well done."
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 12:29 pm
It encourages me that there are so many people here who have upheld Godly standards. It is an encouragement to me because the world speaks loud and long it's lies and half truths. I will find wisdom in God's word. I will demonstrate right living because I know God's standard of holiness rather than the convoluted interpretation of those caught up in "living in the world". I will not be blurring the lines.
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 1:19 pm
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 1:20 pm
I agree 100% with you..I just quit because no matter what they will not agree with me NOR will I agree with them. I had amazing and fantastic points, so did Daryl and many others but it doesn't matter. These that choose to condemn are not on the path of Jesus if you ask me. They are pretty much the same as the ones that crucified Jesus except they are doing it with words and with some sort of false indignation. They claim to have the answers but they are merely human as you and I. Telling others they don't get it, etc....now it just makes me laugh because THEY don't get it. I respect their views for themselves..definitely not for my life. (I would leading a very *very* boring life) - Maybe some live much more stringently than others...that's fine but they don't know who is going to heaven or elsewhere. That is so preposterous in itself to suggest such a thing as human being. In their eyes sin is sin without grey areas so I feel confident to bet money somewhere that what is sin in our eyes may not be in theirs and vice versa..I also bet that any of us can find scriptures that suggest back up our points.
So with that said, I firmly believe it's about what you DO in life and how you treat others. But as for what they toss out? Just a shame as hiding behind self righteous words only makes me wonder further as to how they live up to all that they say or even lead their lives in regards to others. I'm just glad to see many strong minded people managed to find this forum and post how they feel as well.
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 3:55 pm
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 5:48 pm
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 5:52 pm
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 6:04 pm
I am guitly of the compromise. By allowing my mind to dwell on unholy things I've dishonored God and for that I am sorry. I'm so thankful for all those here who have taken seriously the difficult task of judging and holding the body of Christ accountable. Even though you don't know me you were speaking to me and God's word has not come back void. The funny thing is, I know all this stuff. But one compromise leads to more and greater compromise. I actually found ways to justify my actions/choices like so many here who are trying to do the same. Father forgive me! I'm so thankful that Jesus does forgive me. I'm thankful for this blog.
on Sunday, June 24, 2012 at 10:12 pm
on Monday, June 25, 2012 at 9:24 am
The title of this book does in fact reveal the intent of the Enemy...to blur the lines between right and wrong. Look how many here are actually defending it. Broad is the way that leads to distruction. Not many will understand the narrow path or accept it for what it is. For those who have understood the Way, please do not make yourself a willing victem of deceit. Don't participate in the greying of the lines beween the God given gift of Sex described in SOS and the corrupt and perverted version in Fifty Shades of Grey.
on Monday, June 25, 2012 at 10:55 am
My sister was verbally and physically abused by her husband. Till this day, she says the bruises heal but the words still cause her pain to this day.
See what one book is doing. If this book is causing this much division, I WON'T be reading it.
on Monday, June 25, 2012 at 12:38 pm
on Monday, June 25, 2012 at 4:45 pm
I won't be reading the books. Thank you for your boldness!
on Monday, June 25, 2012 at 5:56 pm
on Monday, June 25, 2012 at 6:16 pm
on Monday, June 25, 2012 at 8:48 pm
on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 11:18 am
on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 12:50 pm
I'm sure all these people will do is call you satan or something.
Oh well. I am choosing to live open minded
on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 1:23 pm
on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 3:23 pm
on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 4:02 pm
on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Totally agree! I am not sure why there are some that claim they speak 'the truth'...or know what is best for another human being based off their beliefs. As another fellow Christian I know I can not have the answers..only use the best judgment I can for myself. I practice on 'being' a good person rather than telling others how I think they should 'be'....And I love how you said Suggest :) Too bad that probably won't be contagious from all I've read so far.
on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 9:14 pm
I have not read 50 Shades of Grey, but I will. It's been recommended to me, I love to read, and it sounds interesting, so why not? I don't think I should be labelled as "sinful" for that.
on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Not a surprise that there are those here down playing wickedness. Not surprised that they are deceived and actively spreading deceit by telling others "good is evil (They are saying Dannah and others encouraging abstinence from nasty literature are judging and condemning wrongly ) and evil good (They are telling others that this nasty liturature is something that is ok for Christians to read). NO MATTER! The Lord will rebuke them. For the rest, keep the faith. Seek righteousness. Love the Lord. Honor Him. Speak the truth! Do not shrink back! :) You will reap what you sow. Sow in righteousness.
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 1:50 am
Much Blessings
Mary
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 2:08 am
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 2:30 am
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 8:59 am
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 9:21 am
Sincerely, Friend who is tired of reading things like this
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 9:48 am
To those who have been misled by the world and have fallen into Satan's trap (slyly contrived within the pages of this book), you cannot honestly say, without err in conscience, that you believe your Creator, you Father in Heaven, your Savior, would want you to sink your mind into this pit of endless sin and lust. I do not believe that anyone who has experienced the love and mercy of God could condone this material. If you haven't experienced such love and mercy, i highly suggest it. Nothing in this world compares, as you will see if you open your eyes and hearts.
To women of faith, OPEN YOUR BIBLES. We should be so immersed in, so in love with, so enraptured by our Creator's love and words for us within the Bible, that we should not NEED nor remotely DESIRE to open the pages of this type of writing. Speak to Him, ask your Abba, Father, what He desires for you. I cannot conceive that it would have anything to do with what is found in the pages of this book.
To women who are standing up for your beliefs, faithfully and without compromise: Thank you. I am so encouraged to find that there are still women with a steadfastness in their hearts and a devotion to their God. Thank you all.
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 10:13 am
The whole concept of judgement in the bible is centered on making sure you are not forgetting to look at yourself while looking at others. That is, after all, the biggest tendency of human kind. We can easily see the sin of others but not so easily see our own sin. But we should. And we should call BOTH sin! Shout it out people!!!! SIN is SIN! One isn't greater than the other and one isn't lesser than the other.
If you would would warn someone who is about to steal that the bible says not to steal then you should be equally equipped and ready to warn someone of the sinfulness of reading a supposedly harmless and entertaining book that is nothing but pornography in written form.
"But...but...there's a story there too!" SO WHAT! Tell you what, take some hamburger and mix some human waste into it, cook it up and eat it. JUDGE the same if you really don't feel it's such a big deal to mix a little bit of the impure with the pure. I want to hear someone say, "But...but..there's hamburger in there too!" Then those of you who think a little bit of filth mixed with innocent harmless burger should be willing to take a big bite AND be willing to serve it to your friends, and every stranger you meet or guest you may have. After all, it's just a little filth. And if someone rejects it because they can smell to poo you should try for all your might to ridicule them for their rejection because after all, they shouldn't judge a poo burger if they've never tried one. NO ONE is qualified or right to reject poo burgers if they haven't first indulged. AND bygolly! They better not use the Healthy Department to qualify their stance because what does the Health Department know...it's made up of human beings and their findings are open to interpretation so people should just keep their faith to themselves and live and let live...right? Can anyone else see how stupid this is? I hope so. THAT is the intent of my little diatribe.
Not everyone here, but most who don't agree with Dannah, think those of us who know filth when we see it and smell it should keep our mouths shut and our opinions to ourselves so that you don't feel judged and condemned. I'll tell you what, go ahead and eat your poo burger and smile. Encourage all the other foolish people who can't smell the poo for the burger to eat it too. And the rest of us who can clearly see that it's a load of crap that you're consuming will look on in wonder at the foolishness of your actions and belief while you insist that your faith is NO different than ours and we'll know and be satisfied with our knowledge.
What God has said is true. A man will reap what he sows. You go ahead and keep sowing into your dilution, reap the seared conscience that is sure to come...but you won't notice it because that's how it works. The rest of us who can clearly see the stupidity of your assertions will leave the condemnation to God but hope and pray that the blinding scales that cover your eyes will be pealed back so that you can see the truth that we know.
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 10:23 am
I won't be silent about the poo in the burger either! I would warn everyone I met that people were serving poo burgers. I'm also going to keep warning everyone that this book is filled with filth to. And no, I didn't read it. But I can sure smell to poo and I ain't eatin' it!
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 10:34 am
I'm chuckling because your way of conveying the obvious is so funny. Thanks for the giggles. I really wish others could see the foolishness of their arguments for defending this "crap" as you put it. Ick.
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 2:01 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 2:16 pm
Jer. 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Zech. 7:11 "But they refused to pay attention and turned a stubborn shoulder and stopped their ears that they might not hear."
1 John 3:6 "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him"
1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
1 John 2:4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Heb. 13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."
He is still holy and still expects His people to be holy. Anyone who rejects this rejects God. God cannot be seperated from His holiness. And likewise His people cannot seperate themselves from His words...be holy as I am holy.
There is NO compromise. No filth is acceptable for the believer.
John 10:27 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."
This encouragement is for those who belong to Jesus and follow Him. If you want to keep reading and saturating your mind with this kind of filth you do it without the sanction of God. His will has not changed.
Don't believe the lies here. This book is an abomination. It's not the only abomination in life...but it is definitely one of them. Don't let anyone deceive you. It's wrong to read this kind of stuff. It's wrong to condone others reading it too. Those who disagree do not serve the same God I serve. That is for sure!
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 3:13 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 4:58 pm
You also said"If you don’t know what those words mean, be glad. If you do know, you should understand that the most damaging part of Fifty Shades of Grey is that God created sex to be a partnership that’s fueled by love and self-giving, not pain and humiliation. It’s not just that this book misuses sex, it redefines it into something evil as the lead character dominates in a hurtful manner. How woman can enjoy that, I can’t understand!" well there goes that reference part again, Now just how do you know what the women did in that book or how the lead character did if you DIDN"T read the book?
I'm confused did you read it and then feel guilty or did you just say that you didn't read it because you only read the most erotic parts to discuss?
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 5:12 pm
"you should understand that the most damaging part of Fifty Shades of Grey is that God created sex to be a partnership that’s fueled by love and self-giving, not pain and humiliation. It’s not just that this book misuses sex, it redefines it into something evil as the lead character dominates in a hurtful manner."
doesn't really apply to a reason not to read the book because that is what a huge part of the book is about. Him going through an awful, abusive past and thinking love and sex was this twisted concept, into realizing it is for a wife, someone you love, and an expression of that.
I just do not think you should make such harsh judgments on a book you "have not read." God also talks about how believing in "magic" and any other power is a sin... so did judge and not read Harry Potter either?
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 6:02 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 7:17 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 7:21 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 8:22 pm
Your posts were so good I had to share them! I believe what you are saying is true. If others knew our Lord they would not be condoning sin. If they knew our God they would not encourage others to join in with their sin. But they don't serve the same God we serve. They serve a god of their own making. Only God can open their eyes. But faith does come from hearing the word of God so I'll join with you in speaking the truth plainly, clearly, deliberately and consistantly! Thank you so much for your awesome posts!
I think there were a couple more great ones too. Maybe "Hann" was the name. Anyway, Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life! Keep the faith!
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 8:30 pm
...whew i am so glad you said what you did. I did start to read this..a friend lent it to me....upon opening this book (I KID NOT) there was a light breeze that flipped the pages over to one of the most erotic parts and I could hear some bizarre whispering..it sounded like something in latin at first but i was able to understand by the feeling that washed over me..it's like it was whispering to me to read...just read. I read the first few sentences of where it opened. i could feel a wash of felt like certain urges come over me almost immediately. this freaked me out so badly that i just slammed the book shut and threw the it across the room! I would have burned it but it belonged to a friend so that would not have been right....there IS something evil going on here..we must protect the others..warn them!!
HAHAHA KIDDING! Wouldn't that make for a great scary story though?? That is how crazy i think most of you against this book sound....downright..NUTS.
btw it's a decent book in my opinion..and sorry no, it did not darken my thoughts. Life goes on and i'm reading something entirely different but to each your own everyone. Just remember that nutjobs are typically ones pushing their opinions onto others. See, I can stereotype and condemn too! it's only fair.
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 8:38 pm
My personal opinion on the trilogy is that they were very enjoyable to read- not literary masterpieces, of course- but a good beach read and way better than an average Harlequin romance. The books also sparked a lot of great conversation between myself and female friends, as well as really fun conversations with my husband. They did not deeply change my life for the better, but then again, neither did reading the book of Numbers in the Bible. They also did not hurt my faith or my marriage or my ability to talk to God in prayer, but that's me.
My 50 cents about 50 shades is that I think that the larger Christian community (of which I am a part) needs to take a big chill pill. Scripturally, I think you can pick and choose Bible verses and then argue both sides of this argument indefinitely. You can say, “Sex before marriage is a sin, so you shouldn't read the books” or you can say, “sex is created by God, so you should read the books”, but honestly, it's a little more complicated than that, and it varies from person to person.
To me, the books did have a larger message- a message that could be construed as positive for women and marriage and sexuality. Would I recommend this trilogy as a topic in a Beth Moore bible study? Probably not. Would I recommend the trilogy for an educated, open-minded, female book club? Absolutely.
Additionally, it is very interesting that women seem to be making sweeping judgments based on what is only part of the story. Would you judge the Bible based on the first half, the Old Testament? The Bible is not just about David sleeping with Bathsheba or Cain killing Abel and hiding his body, or drunken Noah sleeping with his daughters. It is not just about Solome asking for the head of John the Baptist or the faithless Israelites turning their gold into false idols. As far as I can tell, God’s larger message in the Bible- the big story, the big picture- is that He redeemed the world through His Love by sending His Only Son, Jesus, into a sinful, hurting world. The Bible itself is LOVE STORY between God and His people.
Has anyone read the book Redeeming Love by Francine Rivers (basically a modern retelling of the book of Hosea)? This amazing book, sold in Christian bookstores, tells the love story between a prostitute and the righteous man who loves her and brings her back to God. The story is at times sexually graphic and often disturbing, but it is essentially a parable for God’s love toward mankind. This book has a larger message of a love that is bigger than fear or sin (just like the Bible does).
After having read 50 Shades, you could easily argue that Ana, the heroine of the story, REDEEMS Christian, the male character, through her UNCONDITIONAL LOVE toward him. He has a tragic, disturbed past, and through her love, he becomes the kind, compassionate, caring person he is meant to be. Hmmmm, redeeming love….where have I heard that before? I’m not comparing the Bible to 50 Shades of Grey, but I do think that there is a bigger message in this controversial trilogy than just trashy porn or the devil trying to sabotage Christian marriage.
I also think that different people can see and experience God in different ways. Elijah heard God in a whisper, while God first spoke to Peter in a fishing boat. Jonah found God in the belly of whale, and Moses saw him in a burning bush. Rich Mullins, the Christian musician who wrote “Our God is an Awesome God” and “Step by Step”, saw the love of God in the beauty of the color green. St. Francis of Assisi saw the love of God in birds and squirrels. Mother Theresa saw God in the face of the homeless people on the streets of Calcutta. And Jesus GAVE the love of God to sinners, tax collectors, thieves, diseased old women, lepers, and prostitutes. My point here is that God speaks in different ways to different people, but the message is the same.
How can you say to another woman, "this book is of the devil and you shouldn't read it" when it may have helped someone regain confidence or rediscover a spark in marriage? It is one thing to talk about what is good and right and holy FOR YOU and quite another to talk about what is good and right and holy for EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WHOLE WORLD. As the saying goes, what is good for Peter is not always good for Paul, and vice versa. It is exactly this kind of superior, my-poo-doesn’t-stink, Jesus-only-loves-saints BS that makes the world angry at Christians!
In my opinion, it is high time to quit judging other women for reading a so-called “scandalous” love story and take some time to share the scandalous LOVE of God with another person!
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 8:39 pm
WOW - now that was a great post!! The bigger message is indeed as to what it's all about and it's so sad for me to see others saying hurtful things over a book.
To the young girl (Thankful I think) saving herself for marriage above - that is a good thing! But please don't think badly of those that elect to not marry or opt not to wait. Everyone is different and as for your friend that you claim left a marriage and kids over this book - well I have to vehemently disagree that the book made this happen or was any sort of a catalyst - This woman obviously had the intent to do so beforehand otherwise she is pretty weak minded. I would hope a person would be stronger than that. AND if she is that weak minded, if it were not this book, it surely would have been another or a matter of time. As for the Bible belt - sigh. I don't live far from it and I will be the first to discuss all of the pregnant unwed teenagers I have known of that never even laid eyes on this book. So pssst - I don't think they waited for marriage. Some are from strong Christian backgrounds too. What is the defense for that? Maybe they were a bit too shielded? Could it be possible? I think the world would be a better place when this madness over a book stops and we each pay attention to ourselves as human beings. If you want to say I worship a different God, well so be it. Say as you please. I am confident in my faith and with who I am.
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 9:26 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 10:05 pm
This is not mine but I would hate for it to be distracted against by a repeat
===
Here’s the thing, I’m a believer. Also, I’m 100% in love with my precious husband- he is the ONLY MAN I will ever love in a sexual way. And I read all three books in the Shades of Grey series. And so far, my head has not started spinning...so, it seems to me that, so far, being a Christian woman and reading 50 Shades of Grey are not mutually exclusive.
My personal opinion on the trilogy is that they were very enjoyable to read- not literary masterpieces, of course- but a good beach read and way better than an average Harlequin romance. The books also sparked a lot of great conversation between myself and female friends, as well as really fun conversations with my husband. They did not deeply change my life for the better, but then again, neither did reading the book of Numbers in the Bible. They also did not hurt my faith or my marriage or my ability to talk to God in prayer, but that's me.
My 50 cents about 50 shades is that I think that the larger Christian community (of which I am a part) needs to take a big chill pill. Scripturally, I think you can pick and choose Bible verses and then argue both sides of this argument indefinitely. You can say, “Sex before marriage is a sin, so you shouldn't read the books” or you can say, “sex is created by God, so you should read the books”, but honestly, it's a little more complicated than that, and it varies from person to person.
To me, the books did have a larger message- a message that could be construed as positive for women and marriage and sexuality. Would I recommend this trilogy as a topic in a Beth Moore bible study? Probably not. Would I recommend the trilogy for an educated, open-minded, female book club? Absolutely.
Additionally, it is very interesting that women seem to be making sweeping judgments based on what is only part of the story. Would you judge the Bible based on the first half, the Old Testament? The Bible is not just about David sleeping with Bathsheba or Cain killing Abel and hiding his body, or drunken Noah sleeping with his daughters. It is not just about Solome asking for the head of John the Baptist or the faithless Israelites turning their gold into false idols. As far as I can tell, God’s larger message in the Bible- the big story, the big picture- is that He redeemed the world through His Love by sending His Only Son, Jesus, into a sinful, hurting world. The Bible itself is LOVE STORY between God and His people.
Has anyone read the book Redeeming Love by Francine Rivers (basically a modern retelling of the book of Hosea)? This amazing book, sold in Christian bookstores, tells the love story between a prostitute and the righteous man who loves her and brings her back to God. The story is at times sexually graphic and often disturbing, but it is essentially a parable for God’s love toward mankind. This book has a larger message of a love that is bigger than fear or sin (just like the Bible does).
After having read 50 Shades, you could easily argue that Ana, the heroine of the story, REDEEMS Christian, the male character, through her UNCONDITIONAL LOVE toward him. He has a tragic, disturbed past, and through her love, he becomes the kind, compassionate, caring person he is meant to be. Hmmmm, redeeming love….where have I heard that before? I’m not comparing the Bible to 50 Shades of Grey, but I do think that there is a bigger message in this controversial trilogy than just trashy porn or the devil trying to sabotage Christian marriage.
I also think that different people can see and experience God in different ways. Elijah heard God in a whisper, while God first spoke to Peter in a fishing boat. Jonah found God in the belly of whale, and Moses saw him in a burning bush. Rich Mullins, the Christian musician who wrote “Our God is an Awesome God” and “Step by Step”, saw the love of God in the beauty of the color green. St. Francis of Assisi saw the love of God in birds and squirrels. Mother Theresa saw God in the face of the homeless people on the streets of Calcutta. And Jesus GAVE the love of God to sinners, tax collectors, thieves, diseased old women, lepers, and prostitutes. My point here is that God speaks in different ways to different people, but the message is the same.
How can you say to another woman, "this book is of the devil and you shouldn't read it" when it may have helped someone regain confidence or rediscover a spark in marriage? It is one thing to talk about what is good and right and holy FOR YOU and quite another to talk about what is good and right and holy for EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WHOLE WORLD. As the saying goes, what is good for Peter is not always good for Paul, and vice versa. It is exactly this kind of superior, my-poo-doesn’t-stink, Jesus-only-loves-saints BS that makes the world angry at Christians!
In my opinion, it is high time to quit judging other women for reading a so-called “scandalous” love story and take some time to share the scandalous LOVE of God with another person!
POST by Martha
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 10:14 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 10:41 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 11:03 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 11:04 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 11:06 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 11:08 pm
Here is a copy:
"I'm sure it is very easy to have a strong faith when you make it up as you go along. Picking and choosing what you want to believe and then labeling yourself a Christian simply because you like a few verses in the New Testament does not make you a Christian. Not in the biblical sense at least. At best you are a 'christian' in the worldly sense. If you do this you are not even of the same faith as those of us who are Christians in the biblical sense (ie...Christ is our LORD. We take the whole bible as the Truth and as the final authority over our lives, minds and actions. We have agreed with God that sin is sin and that He is the one to define it. We believe the only way to be forgiven of our sin is through the blood of Jesus. We agree that no one can approach God unless he is first covered by the mercy of Christ's shed blood. And we acknowledge God's commands to be holy and seperate from the rest of the world and it's convoluted form of wisdom).
If you believe any thing other than that truth we believe you are the same as any athiest, jewish person, muslim, hindu, etc. We do not believe you are saved. We do not think your sin whether it's murder, rape or consuming pornography like this will make you more lost than you already are. Likewise, no good deed, no abstinence from sin, no positive thinking...nothing you do will be acceptable to God. Nothing that isn't covered in the blood of Jesus will ever get anyone into heaven. ONLY the blood of Jesus will save a person. Many will claim to know Christ, but by their actions and world view they openly deny Him. There is only one path to heaven. We did not carve out the path. God did. We simply tell others what we KNOW to be true.
For others to insist that we accept what they believe as being valid and sufficient is to insist that we deny our own faith. How hypocritical. You preach acceptance for everyone except biblical Christians. Trying to insist that we agree with you when you claim that truth is different for everyone proves you have no clue what being a biblical Christian is.
In this case we believe there is only ONE right way. JESUS defined the way.
If your world view, or faith differs from what we believe you are not one of us and we will not equate your faith with our own . It's just that simple. If that is the case reading this series will not compromise your faith. It won't condemn you more than you already are.
IF however you are are a biblical Christian, heed the wisdom given and flee from the sin of allowing your minds to be entertained by unholy liturature like this! There is no grey area in this matter for the biblical Christian. Allowing your eyes, ears and minds to be entertained by erotica, porn etc. is a sin. "
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 11:19 pm
Thanks for reposting that. I didn't take the time to read through all the posts (wow! What a discussion!). But the ones I did read seemed to cause me to feel the same way as the post you just shared. There is definitely a difference in faiths!
I'm not one to condemn anyone. but I know the God I serve would not condone reading these books any more than He would be ok with me watching a porn movie. The Jesus I know is definitely a different Jesus than the one people here are saying is ok with this. I guess that is where we have to leave it.
I guess that's the beauty of living in the United States of America. Each person has the right to practice what ever faith they want. But I wonder why Dannah is coming under such fire for being vocal about her faith...if people don't like others to judge. They should just leave her alone and let her preach and teach to those of us who share her faith! If it's not your faith, why do you care what we believe?
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 11:33 pm
on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at 11:55 pm
HAHAHA KIDDING! Wouldn't that make for a great scary story though?? That is how crazy i think most of you against this book sound....downright..NUTS.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 12:52 am
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 1:28 am
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 1:31 am
I said this before in another post but feel it's worth repeating ::
The scrutiny of human beings onto other human beings that claim they live perfect holy lives to which 'they' have the answers to which is laughable at best. No human can judge me out of what they perceive. I have only one judge the last I checked. That being is not human.
It is about what you do. You can't control every 'thought'..how completely obtuse to suggest such a thing. I can bet at any point in time about every person has had a thought that didn't bode well with the 7 deadly sins whether it was gluttony, pride, sloth, etc. And I'm not talking extreme. A soda or a candy bar could be considered giving into gluttony by some people - so is that impure? What about if I skip laundry today? Did I give into sloth? I'm wearing makeup. uh oh...Pride? I was angry earlier due to a conflict of interests with another person...would that be that wrath? I sure did like a boat a friend of mine and wished for a moment I had one as well - oops..was that envy? At Christmas, sometimes we all get or give well above what we should and do not give enough to charities - would that be greed? Some may condemn you to any one of those based upon what they feel coincides with that particular sin and feel 'sorry' for you as they feel you are living less than a holy life. How does it feel to be under such scrutiny?
You see..with humans it's all subjective and out of conjecture at times - you should DO the best you can. BE caring. BE Kind. BE generous with your words or time or any means you may have. BE gracious toward others. BE sympathetic even when you can't be completely empathetic to another persons plight. BE a good person. If you want to know how Jesus is reflected through us, it's when we as human beings exercise compassion & kindness toward our fellow mankind through our actions. THAT is what he taught first and foremost. I hardly feel Jesus would feel condemning over a literary selection to which is subjective would be putting any of those actions into place. Sure, warn other Christians of why you would choose to stay away yet understand that many may not see it as you do nor perceive themselves as unholy as a result. Jesus is forgiving and He taught by **not** sounding self righteous. Let's not forget the company Jesus did keep and how he went about spreading the word of God. It was the self righteous (HUMANS) who felt Jesus was not leading as God would see fit and thus had him nailed to a cross for what they saw as betrayal - And still....Jesus forgave us before God would destroy us all..
I sure am glad in this day and time, no one can nail another to a cross although the negative words toward others can seem that way figuratively speaking
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 8:20 am
You are not of the same faith as we are. You harrass us because we refuse to equate your faith with our own. WE ARE NOT SERVING THE SAME GOD! Your god has very low standards. Our God will forgive anyone if they are repentant...your god doesn't require repentance. My God says, "Choose you this day whom you will serve". Your god says, "it doesn't matter who you serve."
It isn't a matter of "how you worship"! It's a matter of WHO! My God condemns sin. You are promoting it...and in the name of your god! No matter how you try to say you don't care what we think...here you are reiterating yourself...because you do care! Repent. That is all that is needed. Call on Jesus (the real one) and ask Him to forgive you for making a god in your own image. Then live the way HE wants you to.
"Non Christians will often go God's way if God is going their way" Ravi Zacharias.
People of Faith, I encourage you to go God's way, even when He leads you in a direction you would rather not go.
Making an unwaivering and eternal stand for righteousness and faith in the One TRUE GOD!
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 9:47 am
There are times when I really am tempted to do something forbidden. Sometimes I cave but God never condones my actions....so I repent. If the Holy Spirit convicts me to repent...He must not like it.
God still desires holiness. I will seek it! I will avoid things that feed my flesh!
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 9:52 am
One of Satan's tactics is to say his lies loud and often. You can see that happening throughout this thread. Hitler said something similar. And many many people stood by while he justified the murder of millions...because he said his lies loud and long and they believed him.
I do not believe the lies! Sin is sin. God is holy. Jesus is God. All who want salvation must worship Jesus. Anyone who serves a god other than Jesus will not be saved. Anyone who does worship Jesus and dedicates their lives to Him will be persecuted. You can see that in this thread too. People are coming against those who preach about the Way. The way is narrow that leads to life. Few are those who find it.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:05 am
I have been listening to MANY of the girls from my church who are ALL reading this book.. some of them are going as far to talk about the escapades they are having with their husbands as a result of this book. I don't feel like this is the right way for Christian women to be behaving.... You can't tell me they are thinking about there husbands while they are trying to relive some of the scenes of this book. It just can't be good for the soul.
Just MO but if you wouldn't tell your Pastor about the book, then Maybe that is your spirit telling you its not right... Also if you have to pretend all the bad words aren't in it than maybe that should be a sign its not the right thing to fill your heart with.
Again this is just my opinion, but I felt like I needed to say I am not reading this book because of the convictions God has given me.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:07 am
Erotica is a genre of literature that includes sexually explicit details as a primary feature. Unlike pornography, erotica does not aim exclusively at sexual arousal. Though the distinction is blurring in modern works, erotica traditionally contains more sexual details than romance novels.
So I would like to see your source for the definition in reason #1.
I also highly recommend that you do some research into the BDSM lifestyle. It isn't based on pain and humiliation. As a person who has done a lot of reading on the subject (academic, not fiction writing, for the record) I can confidently say that it's based on trust, respect, and consensual sex. There are varying degrees, but the whole basis of the relationship is between two of-age, consenting adults. Many married couples participate (privately, as is their right) in this kind of relationship and leave happy, normal, healthy lives, fulfilled sexually and romantically. In fact, the book does do a decent job of showing that side of the story-- it even includes a written contract, so that both parties can state their feelings and desires as well as likes, dislikes, and limits. It's all explicitly defined and both parties are made very aware of the nature of the relationship before it begins.
Frankly, if you're not reading the book, good for you-- I have, and it was poorly written, to say the least. But I caution you to do some research before making claims about this culture. Fear- and hate-mongering are dangerous, and not in the least Christ-like, and I feel it is your responsibility to your readers to know much more about a subject before condemning it.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:28 am
If you are a Christian and you've read the book or were considering reading it...repent. To read this book is to blatently go against the Spirit of God living within you...if indeed He really abides there. If you will not repent and would rather justify your sinful choice that is a good indicator that maybe He isn't.
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:40 am
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 11:47 am
What I find so funny about this article and the comments, is the author quoting Joey from Friends!! How funny is that?? There is nothing moral about Friends and Joey is the least moral one of the bunch!!! Too funny, so basically it's okay to watch Friends but don't read this book!!
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 11:54 am
A few years ago, a book like this would have been exciting to me. I was into S&M both in porn and lightly in practice and so I do understand how such a thing can be tempting. However, the relationship was far from godly and had many issues of domination and manipulation. When I married a wonderful and godly man who had no interest in such a practice once married, I started to second guess it. I also had a textbook case of your warnings in #2 that I almost completely had to check out of sex and into my fantasy world for gratification although I hadn't indulged in it in years.
Thankfully, once I confessed both to God and to my husband, the Lord redeemed my mind and while I still have to fight the images occasionally, we have been enjoying a much healthier relationship.
I realize I have had a more personal experience with this so the issue hits closer to home, and I'm sure many would write me off as just following personal convictions. However I think the slope is a slippery one and I appreciate the sound and biblical warnings about the dangers. I am not perfect at this, nor is anyone. But thankfully through Christ there is forgiveness, redemption and the hope of abundant life. That is the life we fight for.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 12:24 pm
Classy. Is that how you encourage others to join into Christianity? I sure hope not as you would repel most with your most forked tongue. Jesus never would encourage this method. 'My God this, My God that'..Seriously?
I just repeat the same things because at this point, it is highly unnecessary for me to take the time to write out anything new in any sort of detail to which will only have scriptures thrown at it and be disagreed with at the same time. It would be redundant to a point of useless yet I'm not giving up on my stance on how I feel about the blatant insulting. This is not an argument that will be won on either side. It's just a differing of how we see things. If you can't acknowledge that the Bible has many interpretations as well as contradictions, then my friend...it is YOU who is quite blind. Hurling insults never helped anyone's argument you know. :)
How DARE you tell me how to worship? I can understand the opinions about the books..but for those who do like them? how DARE you stone us for our opinion? If your intent is to merely warn those who are like minded then why bother to spew hateful words at those that oppose? That sort of attitude IS the catalyst of the devil. Satan wants you to feel self righteous and full of false indignation so you can do his bidding which is to repel those from Christianity. If you were a peaceful Christian and practiced aligned with the overall message OF the Bible, you would realize this is an age old tactic that leads into more harmful behavior toward your
fellow mankind by using GOD as your source. Sorry buddy, I believe God and Jesus are a lot more forgiving than to shoot anyone to hell over a fictional novel. I give them more credit into being able to look into our souls. Anger and Insults only reflect badly upon yourself. If you have allowed it completely cloud your judgement, it will be impossible to see through the thick fog that is hate.
It IS a matter of how one worships. Sorry..you'll have to live with the fact that I won't change this opinion yet I would suggest not letting wrath get to you over it. It's not worth it. I am not going around telling anyone to read the book..I'm simply stating that I am and I encourage people to make
choices for themselves. If they feel uncomfortable with the contents, don't read but do know there's an actual story OF redemption at the end. At least be knowledgeable.
It's a shame that opinions like Daryls, Marthas and many others were not even responded to that had so many great points.
Peace be with you Ian..
James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God,who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Ian, I am with you! And I don't feel your post was hateful or insulting. It was well worded. I think the animosity is rooted in the fact that the argument can't be won by this "Sarah". It is evident to me that she is angry because those who agree w/Dannah are taking a strong immovable stance that God is God...Jesus does not accept sinful choices even though he forgives them. Sounds like she's also angry because she insists her god is one and the same with the God others serve. But clearly there is a difference.
Her indignation and fear mongering are powerless. She serves a powerless god. The God Who Is has defeated him...on the cross...the only way one can be saved...the only way one can overcome sin...the only way ones blind eyes can be opened. Preach on Brother.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Your anger and hostility are rooted in your pride...the same pride that causes you to shake your fist at the TRUTH. It's the same pride that causes you to make up your faith as you go along rather than follow the WAY.
There is no insult in my post above and there is no insult in my post now. If you find the Truth insulting I can't help that. Your matter is with God not me.
As far as interpretations of the Word of God, there are only two. The right interpretation and the wrong. I believe I am right. I will hold to it until my death. I will preach it as long as God gives me breath. No amount of accusations of "stone throwing" will stop me. I know the God I serve. He is not your God...yet. But maybe someday you will see and believe. That is my prayer for you Sarah.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 4:33 pm
Great word of edification, Dannah. You did well to share your convictions.
Romans 16:17 "I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them."
Galatians 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"
2 Cor. 11:13-15 "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve."
That's pretty clear, strong language.
I'm glad to see there are so many who are bold in The Faith.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 4:45 pm
I do feel you showed displays of hostility over my beliefs to which I simply pointed out to you. I never said I was angry nor have I suggested this..In fact, quite the contrary. Christianity is open to all with an open heart....lol. Alas, no. It is not club...But one should never attempt to repel another from it with harsh words. There is no shaking my fist at the 'truth'..sigh. Hardly. I am always open to saying I don't have all of the answers..I am merely human after all. I believe as I do just as you hold onto your beliefs. I will say I find it of amusement that my beliefs seem to rattle much disdain from you. Why is that so? Does it make you doubt yourself? You should not be put off by me in the least. By insinuating I am less than a true Christian...is an insult. However sometimes the blinded do not see clearly to which you have my forgiveness. I am glad you hold strong to your interpretations..I would not try to sway you of them. It is your truth and to which you live - just know that there are differing views out there and this should not arouse anger. Practice acceptance and you will feel more peace in your heart.
I only question your moral judgment as how you choose to relay your accusatory statements against your fellow mankind. No one called 'Christianity' a club after all - you made a reference as if that is what I am doing but you are mistaken. I know the God I serve as well...the one to which accepts us both. :)
Ephesians 4:31-32 ESV ---> A favorite
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
James 4:11-12 ESV
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Proverbs 12:18 ESV (LOVE this one)
There is one whose rash words are like sword thrusts, but the tongue of the wise brings healing.
Romans 14:10-12 ESV
Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Matthew 5:43-45 ESV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Matthew 5:21-22 ESV
“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
Romans 3:23 ESV
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
James 1:19-20 ESV
Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
Luke 6:32-42 ESV
“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. ...
Matthew 5:7 ESV
“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
Matthew 7:1-5 ESV
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 4:55 pm
Just as you incorrectly interpret the bible you incorrectly interpret what I have said. I am not angry with you. I haven't the slightest bit of emotion toward you. Unless hope is an emotion. I hope you learn the truth one day. I hope you come to know my God. Maybe you will if you keep reading scripture. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Ian, I am with you! And I don't feel your post was hateful or insulting. It was well worded. I think the animosity is rooted in the fact that the argument can't be won by this "Sarah". It is evident to me that she is angry because those who agree w/Dannah are taking a strong immovable stance that God is God...Jesus does not accept sinful choices even though he forgives them. Sounds like she's also angry because she insists her god is one and the same with the God others serve. But clearly there is a difference.
Her indignation and fear mongering are powerless. She serves a powerless god. The God Who Is has defeated him...on the cross...the only way one can be saved...the only way one can overcome sin...the only way ones blind eyes can be opened. Preach on Brother.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Your post was awesome!
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm
Great post, Penny!
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 5:12 pm
since i don't have scriptures, here are cool quotes!
I've got nothing against God. It's his Fan Club I can't stand --> lololol yep
Science flies you to the moon..Religion flies you into buildings ----> YEP!!! and to bomb abortion clinics but hey all in the name of faith right? nooooo problem! you know i think my history professor is evil and i don't agree with his grade on my latest paper due to differing views..can i just get rid of him? kiddin' though some of you were probably wondering how evil is he
and this is just funny
So, these three guys walk into a bar: a Catholic priest, a pedophile, and a porn addict, and he's with two other men. --> hahahahaha
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 5:16 pm
You are sounding more peaceful now and that's great. But did you not say this originally to me as I was responding to someone else. (below) - It really is sad that you guys do this. I'll pray for you and I'm done because there is 'no' argument here. It's a difference of opinions and I'm not going to entertain it any longer. You guys know in your heart that it's not right to say someone has no faith or suggest they are less than a Christian simply because they disagree with your views. I did not misquote any of the scriptures I posted.
Anyway I'm finished. No one was trying to win anything here as that can't be accomplished. It was a request for respect to not claim fallacy toward anothers religion over opposing viewpoints. It was a simple request. That is all.
How does this response *not* sound hostile :
===
From Ian to me :
Nah...that wasn't worth repeating. .
You are not of the same faith as we are. You harrass us because we refuse to equate your faith with our own. WE ARE NOT SERVING THE SAME GOD! Your god has very low standards. Our God will forgive anyone if they are repentant...your god doesn't require repentance. My God says, "Choose you this day whom you will serve". Your god says, "it doesn't matter who you serve."
It isn't a matter of "how you worship"! It's a matter of WHO! My God condemns sin. You are promoting it...and in the name of your god! No matter how you try to say you don't care what we think...here you are reiterating yourself...because you do care! Repent. That is all that is needed. Call on Jesus (the real one) and ask Him to forgive you for making a god in your own image. Then live the way HE wants you to.
"Non Christians will often go God's way if God is going their way" Ravi Zacharias.
People of Faith, I encourage you to go God's way, even when He leads you in a direction you would rather not go.
Making an unwaivering and eternal stand for righteousness and faith in the One TRUE GOD!
====
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 5:29 pm
Is this blog about faith or is it about a book anyway!?? Unbelievable.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 6:12 pm
Song of Solomon is "erotic" literature that was put in the bible. However, one must not ignore the context! I once heard that SOS was like John Mayer's song "Your body is a wonderland" and that if SOS was fine, so was this song. I'm not going to fully address what I think about the song (I like it, it's catchy, its weird) but I will address how these things, and 50 Shades, are not the same.
SOS was written by Solomon to his wife. It was a prayer, so to speak, thanking God for what a beautiful gift He had given him and verbally affirming his wife's beauty and encouraging her that she was sexually satisfying to him. The key word in this who thing is wife--John Mayer is not married, therefore the song is incomparable as are Christian and Ana in 50 Shades. One commenter said that her husband (deployed) used a website to write her an erotic novel about each other--this is a much more accurate comparison to that of SOS. Now, I would never be that bold, but I bet you this man's wife appreciated, cherished, and grew to love her husband more through this gift. That is what Song of Solomon is--an example of how one spouse can affirm the other relationally, spiritually, and sexually-- and why it cannot be compared at all to the types of "erotic literature" that is popular today.
Now this begs the question--what if erotic literature IS written about a husband and wife? I'll just say what my mom used to say--"I don't look in my neighbor's bedroom window!" I don't know if this would be right wrong or otherwise, but I would not read it.
There's another book out that also created quite a stir recently, even featured on the View, that was about sex and it's one I can endorse even though I don't agree with absolutely everything in it. It's called "Real Marriage" (it is where a few of my points about SOS are also raised) by Mark and Grace Driscoll. In this book they tastefully discuss their own sexual relationship and issues in the context of sex being only one part of marriage.
Marriage is the key here (in the Christian argument against this book)--I agree with Dannah's post and have a difficult time seeing eye to eye with Christians who endorse and encourage the reading of these books because of this key. Sex before marriage, as stated in the bible, is a sin. I am not naive enough to believe that every Christian couple was a virgin when they married and I don't condemn or discourage them. Sin happens--anger, disobedience, lust--and it is forgiven and forgotten by a loving God who makes all things new. However, it is not to be dwelled upon, and reading 50 Shades of Grey is dwelling on the sin of premarital sex, no matter how romantic or inspiring it is. I have read other book seres that contain premarital sex in a way that was not at all graphic (i.e. they closed the door in one chapter and woke up in the same bed the next) and it still, at times, felt like I was dwelling on sin. Am I saying that it is a sin to read books or watch movies that contain or allude to premarital sex--no, but if you choose not to, or warn others not to, that is not a sin either.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 7:02 pm
So, I'll defend my faith. I'll defend my rights to speak about my faith. You can defend your own rights to speak of your faith. But I will not bow to your god, nor will I say we serve the same God.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 7:03 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 7:17 pm
Please let go of directing anything at me. I'm finished with this and I always defended my side as you defended yours. I don't tell anyone to pray for you just because we disagree..I would appreciate likewise. Defending a stance is different than arguing as I never said anything mean to anyone. I didn't insult their faith or call them names. You could define any of these posts as arguing with that blanket definition. I don't like anyone jabbing at my faith or how I worship whether they agree or not. I have never insulted yours..I'm sure you would not care for it if I did - just not my style. Simply put, it's wrong. I don't have anything against how you worship. I have always stated that anyone who feels uncomfortable with erotica should refrain from reading it. I think many on here made insightful comments, posted scriptures with some darned good explanations as well for the opposing side. To each their own. Please move on from it - there is nothing here to win. I will never agree with you and you will not with me and that's OK. People disagree..it happens. I would not be shocked if you or Ian or some of the others are 1 in the same person. And please. Do you really think Sarah is my real name? I'd never be so naive to post that on the internet lol! Many pieces of literature (even great) have words or situations that may not settle well for many. That's life. Now please move on from me. There's a glorious world out there to which your energy would be better directed. Peace!
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 7:56 pm
She's accused others of being one and the same person besides you and Ian. It's a way of discrediting others. But you are on the right path and I agree with you. :)
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Thought I'd go up and grab it cause Margo and Cale called my attention to it. Thanks Penny! You're a great gal that knows her stuff!
"I can't help myself. My mind would embrace the human logic and fairness to not judge others were it not for the Spirit of God living within me. The Bible I've come to fully believe leads me to have strong convictions that there are certain uncompromising standards that I and others who bear the name of Christ must strive to live up to with the hopes of becoming more and more holy as Jesus commanded and still commands. And though I might be tempted to fall for the chantings of the Judge Not crowd I have seen more than that one verse in God's Word. So I rest in my unearned salvation and hold fast to the very words that taught me to seek God and His mercy, all the while striving to live the way He says I should live. In my failures, I pray God will open my eyes to see things as I should and that I will begin to do things as I should. He knows I have a long way to go! In my successes I will continue to teach others that they too can be overcomers. One of the sinful indulgences I've had a great measure of success in overcoming is reading books like this. Books that at one time I justified reading by telling myself that I wasn't hurting anyone, that it wouldn't hurt me, that I was mature enough and strong enough to handle it, that God was ok with my choice and that it was innocent fun. But years ago, when God, through many circumstances, opened my eyes I began to understand that reading this kind of liturature was not only an abomination to the Lord, but it was also a stumbling block to others and myself. By reading such things I was acting as the perverbial dog who would eat it's vomit. Like a fool returning to my folly I, after having been fully cleansed of every guilty stain with which I ever knowingly or unknowingly tarnished my heart, justified my poor and unholy choices of liturature and once again dishonored God. But He loved me, just the same as He loves every single one of you, and He opened my eyes to my sin...showing me that it was indeed sin and a dishonoring of the name of Christ when I as a woman bearing His name willingly consumed every pleasure this mommy porn could offer. Now I know better. Now I do better. I will never say that this lesson is not the same for everyone because the God Who Is is God of All and He does not have favorites. His will is that we who are called by His name, Christ, live holy and reject that which is unholy. His will is also that we who are called by His name, Christ's name, teach, rebuke, correct and instruct others in the faith that others may know the Truth and so be set free from bondage as well. We are to love others as we would be loved. I know many of you do not believe what so many wise and Godly people have said here that this kind of reading material is sinful, wicked and unholy, but your unbelief does not make their words untrue. they speak the truth to you as I do. I speak because I love Jesus and have vowed to honor Him, which means obeying Him when he says to speak the Truth in love. I lovingly beseech you who have either read the books or are contemplating reading them, if you belong to Christ, to repent. As Jesus who loved and accepted the prostitute but then told her to go and sin no more, I hold out His grace to you as well and tell you there is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ...go and sin no more. And when you learn something that I or another believer has not yet learned, love me back and warn me of my errant ways so that I may share in the knowledge Christ has given you. The rebuke of a righteous man is life!
posted by Penny
on Sunday, June 17, 2012 at 9:33 pm"
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 9:16 pm
It's probably unfathomable to her that so many could believe she's so very very wrong. But I can see from all the posts that they do...and that she is. But she's not the only one and it isn't about her. She's just the one who can't let it rest. I take it as a good thing because the more she hears the truth the more chances there are that the thick crusted calous of pride shrouding her heart may be pierced. God only knows.
But we aren't here for "Sarah"...we are here for each other. She just keeps inserting herself. No one says she doesn't have the right to do so. But it is redundant for her to keep going on and on. Keep speaking the truth everyone. There are many many "Sarahs" of the world who are misguided and are misguiding. They claim to know the truth but by their actions they deny Him. They do not know the God we serve no matter how long and loudly they figuratively stamp their feet and insist that they do. We know that their god is actually Satan disguised as "light".
KNOW this:
Matt. 24:9-10"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,"
It is upon us. Believers, pray for each other and for God's will to be done. Pray, pray, pray.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 9:35 pm
I'm very thankful for your advice and comments here. I truly appreciate simple truth. So many have cleared this matter up for me. I know it isn't a matter of choice to read and be ok with this book. I see now it is a matter of Lordship. And I love Jesus and want to honor Him in all that I say and do. I will honor Him as LORD of my life. I will not be reading this book. AND I will search the scriptures daily and commit it's words to my heart so that one day I will be able to give an answer for the hope that is within me like you all have.
I especially appreciate Dannah, Penny, Sara, Hann, Marris, GodIs, Thankful and Ian.
You have all blessed me so much.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:05 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:07 pm
WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK SO MANY WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY!?? IF there is a God HE WILL NOT BE THANKING YOU FOR YOUR UGLY AND HATEFUL WORDS AND MAKING PEOPLE LIKE ME WANT TO VOMIT! SHAME ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU! YOU are NOT what is defined as HOLY! You are a #!! HUMAN BEING SO GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE! IF I EVER meet a Christian like you I will knock them upside the head! YOU are a MENACE to that of what you PREACH! 100% HYPOCRISY! I would seriously SPIT on any one of you. This is the nastiest crap I've read in the longest time and I DO NOT EVEN CARE ABOUT RELIGION!! NOW I HATE IT EVEN MORE! THANKS GUYS!!! GREAT JOB!!!! IT JUST MAKES ME SO ANGRY that those that DARE claim they are HOLY or peacemakers or whatever they want to think they are ACT SO UGLY. YOU ALL DISGUST ME! If there is heaven or hell my vote is to ship you all off down under. Many would make great demons!
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:18 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:27 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:29 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:32 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:33 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:38 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:42 pm
No one is perfect. That's why the sacrifice of Jesus is so necessary. And when someone has been set free from condemnation they have a new sprit...a new nature. The Spirit of God lives in you and gives you understanding.
His Spirit tells me this book is sinful. He doesn't speak out of both sides of His mouth.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:43 pm
But they allow people to have disagreements and don't police that. Be mindful. If you want us to hear your view...say it nicely. Otherwise you deprive us of your two cents worth and all because you can't excersize self control.
Oh, and check out the blog. It's littered with poor grammar, spelling and sentence structure. Not an issue here. What matters is whether someone can convey their opinions adequately.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 10:52 pm
Not reading the book either!
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 11:07 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 11:12 pm
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 11:19 pm
Way to demonstrate proper human interaction, David. lol!
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 11:24 pm
The origional blog post was from Dannah, we all know where she stands. She believes books like Fifty Shades are sinful and wrong. There are those who share her belief and they call themselves Christians. They have a deep religious belief and conviction about following the bible.
Then there are those here who also call themselves Christians but they don't believe the same thing that the other "Christians" believe. They actually have different religions as far as I can tell. But the one group is insisting that they are the same as the other while the other group denies this. It's kinda funny actually. But I can see the point of the super religious Christians.
I don't hold to either of their "faiths" but it sure has been fun watching. I doesn't make me mad. I don't see hate from the super religious Christians. But I do pick up on some major animosity from the other ones. And David...who I'm thinking is someone else who's been offended earlier in the conversation. No athiest I know would have such emotion over this...we just don't care that much. lol! BUT someone who maybe want's to be accepted as a "Christian" but is being told they aren't might have such emotion. Just sayin. lol!
Kinda funny either way.
on Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 11:42 pm
on Friday, June 29, 2012 at 12:19 am
I don't feel any of these people have displayed manners so likewise. likewise. You get back what you put out. Remember that one!
I am treating them as they ALL treat others. Just a bit more blatant ya know? I'm loud and obnoxious in real life too so at least I keep that real. No masquerade here. You don't see me partaking in subtle acts of bigotry and using a Bible to excuse my lack of manners. I'll just give it to you straight. A big dose of reality. I don't care about whatever the hell this book is. I just read a bunch of crap from people that feel the need to announce how holy they are while acting like anything but. It's disgusting. There is no other word. This is exactly why I can't even entertain Christianity. I have known more devious and wicked people that hide behind their Bible than
those that don't.
And there is no way to splice up who is who on here. How can YOU even do that? You claim to not hold any of the faiths yet you can take a side? That's downright more hilarious than the other ones! I just see ugliness! Even I can't take a side so don't give me that crap! You already have a side. if you didn't and you just read the postings, it's plain as the nose on your face that if you disagree or have a differing opinion of whatever these droids think, they will come out like lucifer himself if there was one. Which there isn't one. I believe in fairy tales as much as I believe in a red horned man living in the earth's core. Why do you care which faith is which? Do you have a stake in it? THEN WHAT DOES IT MATTER TO YOU? Not that I'll care about your answer anyway. It just doesn't make logical sense. If Christian A doesn't agree with Christian B..what the hell is it to ya? I think it's speculation on your end there Missy and mighty odd for an Atheist.
All I see is a bunch of badgering because group 1
doesn't agree with group 2 and then they are baiting each other. Typical Christian form! From where I sit no one is practicing what they preach so to speak. But they prove me right once again. People that want to throw the Bible at others are nothing more than bored immoral people of their own device so it makes them feel good to wear a mask. They have so little in their own lives that going on some made up
crusade is better than facing what is in the mirror staring back. A hollow shell of a person with no real mission other than spreading more hate to puff themselves up. A hypocrite. They just USE the Bible. "the bible says, the bible says"...so you know...it MUST BE TRUE. So you all tell yourselves you are the perfect person on this earth before you go to bed at night. I guess that must make ya'll sleep better. The rest of know it's bunch of BS.
And Missy I'm Agnostic hun. You can google that
if you don't know the difference. It means I believe there is probably something. Just not sure what. Just know it aint any of this or if it was, sign me up for hell! So that's not Athiest. Which earns you a bit of scrutiny yourself for not knowing the difference. Like I said, I know I'm not dealing with many brain cells anyway. Any Athiest THAT I KNOW would not be so passionate about who is right or wrong in a Christian debate! LOL!!! Back at ya hun. This is WHY I DO NOT LIKE THIS FAITH. IT causes people to act in the most
ugliest of ways. I've witnessed it and I've said it for the longest time. Proof is all over this board. I think everyone is an idiot! I'm not leaving any so called Christian out on that one. Thats all FOLKS! Rejoin your little group of hate and bigotry.......already in progress.
on Friday, June 29, 2012 at 12:57 am
I am with you, Dannah. I will not set that kind of liturature before my eyes either. Strong convictions here that God does not condone sinfulness. Many strikes against this series, I'd say.
on Friday, June 29, 2012 at 1:17 am
I did correct myself. You must have missed that. As far as caring, I don't know where you get where I care. I just think it's fun. I've never been threatened by someone elses belief. What do I care if someone thinks I'm going to hell? As far as siding with christians A or B...I don't. All I said was that I don't see any hostility in christians A. They simply look like they are dogmatic in their faiths. They'd be hypocrites if they didn't say the things they say. In my book they're at least consistent. I'm cool with that and have no emotion over it. I don't understand why you are getting all emotional about this. Is this the first time you've ever seen something like this? Dude! Step out into the real world! It's everywhere! You gotta just sit back and enjoy the show. Humans are facinating!!! Including you jumping in ring with your own selfrighteous accusations and your superior attitude.
From what I can tell Dannah's message is about her faith to people who share her faith. I have NO PROBLEM with this. If you aren't one of them, from what I can tell from the blog they say they aren't talking to you anyway. Do you get this emotional over every conflict in life? I think there's a story here. Alas, I'm not your shrink so I'll leave you alone. But I'm gonna keep watching and enjoying the show...cause I'M NOT THREATENED by it.
But, Dude, take some anger management classes for the sake of the rest of society, huh?
on Friday, June 29, 2012 at 1:33 am
To me you sound like a peacable enough person. But are you sure that God isn't opening your eyes just a bit to the Truth? I've seen your posts. I can tell you are seeking. I know you are an athiest. But I've heard a lot of so called athiests claim that. Would you say you know EVERYTHING there is to know in life? Would you say you know half of EVERYTHING there is to know? Of course your answer is going to be, "no". If I'm right and you're catching my point, let me ask you this; Is it possible that God exists in the other half of EVERYTHING there is to know? If you answered with a yes, then you are not an athiest, you are at best an agnostic. If you believe there is possibly something, or someone out there who is God then you are not an athiest. I'd love to tell you who that S